Speaking "in tongues", possession and supernatural

[Nayto]

All of us are deserving of death and God has pulled us all by His grace from the depths of sin, even as we inevitably continue in sin. The rest of our race will receive the same opportunity at the resurrection and every knee will bow and every tongue will confess.

[SwordBrethren]

All of us are deserving of death and God has pulled us all by His grace from the depths of sin, even as we inevitably continue in sin. The rest of our race will receive the same opportunity at the resurrection and every knee will bow and every tongue will confess.

I never went for any of that self-hating, evangelical sort of stuff, that false pity party, "we're all terrible, we're all miserable, we all deserve to die the death..."


God declared He loved Jacob before he was even born!



I've found a lot of evangelicals talk about how "all of our works are meaningless worthless rags to God, we all deserve to go to Hell" but then when you hear how they talk about themselves, how they are awesome super people with colossal faith, you realize it is just false humility and a false sense of self-pity.


I don't want to come off as arrogant but I don't see myself as having ever violated the law to the point where I deserve to die, let alone die the death.


I'm not saying you have false humility, don't feel any sense of shame at being proud to be one of the faithful who obeys the Law.


I'm not going to thump my chest and declare myself to be better than 98% of our racial kin who are out there clowning around and wasting their birthright, but I believe we have a covenant/contract with God, as an individual I am doing my best to uphold my part and I believe that God, being honorable and truthful and holy, will uphold His end [far better than I can uphold my end, He's God, He's perfect] and I will be rewarded accordingly.

Most people don't even acknowledge the covenant and don't even attempt to uphold their end and I feel that I am doing better than what they are doing [or not doing], not that it necessarily makes me inherently better.

[Staropramen]

I've found a lot of evangelicals talk about how "all of our works are meaningless worthless rags to God, we all deserve to go to Hell" but then when you hear how they talk about themselves, how they are awesome super people with colossal faith, you realize it is just false humility and a false sense of self-pity.

When most evangelicals say "all of our works are meaningless worthless rags to God, we all deserve to go to Hell" they are usually referring to anything that they can accomplish outside of Christ. I've never heard an evangelical say that everything they do as Christians is worthless rags and deserving hell which is what the context of such a statement would need to be for the latter part of your statement to be true.

[Staropramen]

The Hebrew actually says that all of our righteousness [that which we create on our own apart from God] is like a used woman's menstrual rag.

[Nayto]

Seems like my response was lost in the recent hiccup on the site, so I'll just summarize what I said.

In my opinion it doesn't really come down to humility or arrogance, false or otherwise. In the end we will all get our just reward from God. In the end so long as we have duty towards our race to strike the balance between keeping out the unrepentant sinners and simultaneously being poised to welcome those who repent, even to encourage them.

I feel that if we act for the love of our race, things will come more naturally. If we act for the sake of righteousness or reward, the love and/or duty becomes strained and we get angry with our unrepentant kindred. I think it is not constructive to get angry because it simply pushes them away from the truth. In my experience I've found kindness to be much more effective when battling for hearts of people. We still however need to be firm about our values and about only the repentant being welcome in the Kingdom.

Christ is a great example -- obviously -- in that He kept the company of good men, showed only kindness to the lost sheep and basically verbally abused Edom at every turn, lol.

[wmfinck]

The Lake of Fire is a symbol which serves as an allegory for a cessation of existence. We can be certain of that, because the Beast, the False Prophet, the Devil, Hell and Death are all thrown into it, ostensibly in that very order, followed by everyone not written into the Book of Life (Rev. 19:20, 20:10, 14, 15).

Since Hell and Death and the Beast and the False Prophet cannot be refined, then I would think it rather safe to conclude that neither can any of those who are not written into the Book of Life. As Obadiah says, they shall be as though they had never existed. Only the White Adamic race is written into the Book of Life, which must be the Word of God. Please see the end of my Revelation chapters 19 and 20 commentary here: http://christogenea.org/content/christogenea-04-01-2011-revelation-chapters-19-and-20

Only Yahweh God knows the hearts and minds of men and women. Only He knows all of the circumstances under which each of us have sinned, what conditions and thoughts we suffered when we sinned. Therefore, ultimately only He can judge us. None of us were raised with the education that an Adamic man should have, in that first society which before the fall Yahweh God provided for us. Therefore Paul says this:

12 For this reason, just as by one man failure of purpose entered into the Society, and by that failure of purpose death, and in that manner death has passed to all men, on account that all have done wrong: 13 (for until the law fault was in the Society; but fault was not accounted, there not being law; 14 but death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not committed an error resembling the transgression of Adam, who is an image of the future. 15 But should not, as was the transgression, in that manner also be the favor? Indeed if in the transgression of one many die, much greater is the favor of Yahweh, and the gift in favor, which is of the one man Yahshua Christ, in which many have great advantage. 16 And not then by one having committed error is the gift? Indeed the fact is that judgment of a single one is for condemnation, but the favor is from many transgressions into a judgment of acquittal. 17 For if in the transgression of one, death has taken reign through that one, much more is the advantage of the favor, and the gift of justice they are receiving, in life they will reign through the one, Yahshua Christ.) 18 So then, as that one transgression is for all men for a sentence of condemnation, in this manner then through one decision of judgment for all men is for a judgment of life. 19 Therefore even as through the disobedience of one man the many were set down as wrongdoers, in this manner then through the obedience of One the many will be established as righteous. 20 Moreover, law entered in addition, that the transgression would increase; but where guilt increased, favor exceeded beyond measure, 21 that just as guilt reigned in death, so then favor shall reign through justice for life eternal, through Yahshua Christ our Prince.

In other words, Adam put us all into sin, and Christ saved us all from it - and there are no exceptions at either end of the situation! The fleshly part of Adam is temporal, but the spirit part eternal.

We all sin, and some of us much more grievously than others. Yet we shall all be saved. However we shall not ever be saved on our own account, but for the glory of Yahweh our God, and on account of His Word. We must be mindful, of course, that the Genesis account and Paul's explanation, as well as the Word of Christ, are only applicable to the Adamic man.

While we are all saved, however, we shall not all have the same reward, or status, in the promised life to come. Here again, from Paul's letters:

11 For another foundation no one is able to place besides that which is established, which is Yahshua Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds upon that foundation gold, silver, precious stones, timber, fodder, straw, 13 the work of each will become evident; indeed the day will disclose it, because in fire it is revealed; and of what quality the work of each is, the fire will scrutinize. 14 If the work of anyone who has built remains, he will receive a reward. 15 If the work of anyone burns completely, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be preserved, although consequently through fire.

The fire which the man whose works burn completely suffers is, ostensibly, the trials of this life which he suffers. We learn this from Peter:

3 Blessed is Yahweh, even the Father of our Prince Yahshua Christ, who according to His great mercy has engendered us from above into a living hope through the resurrection of Yahshua Christ from among the dead, 4 for an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and unfading, being kept in the heavens for us 5 who are being preserved by the power of Yahweh through faith for a salvation prepared to be revealed in the last time. 6 In which you must rejoice, if for a short time now it is necessary being pained by various trials, 7 in order that the test of your faith, much more valuable than gold which is destroyed even being tested by fire, would be found in praise and honor and dignity at the revelation of Yahshua Christ, 8 whom not having seen you love, in whom now not seeing but believing you rejoice with an indescribable and illustrious joy, 9 acquiring the result of your faith: preservation of your souls. 10 Concerning which preservation the prophets enquired and examined, those having prophesied concerning the favor which is for you, 11 seeking for which things or what time the Spirit of Christ in them indicated, testifying beforehand the sufferings for Christ and the honors after these things. 12 To whom it had been revealed that not for themselves, but for you they furnished these things, things which are now reported to you through those announcing the good message to you in the Holy Spirit having been sent from heaven, things which the messengers desire to peer into.

Yet I would not imagine what that reward could be, which Paul talks about in the passage above , and which Christ infers in so many parables, and anyone who tries to imagine it is merely making conjecture. This too is certain from Scripture, as the apostle John says in his first epistle:

1 Look at the sort of love which the Father gave to us, that we should be called children of Yahweh! And we are. For this reason Society does not know us, because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of Yahweh, and not yet has it been made manifest what we shall be. We know that if He is made manifest, we shall be like Him, since we shall see Him just as He is. 3 And each who having this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

The ideas represented in these quotes from Paul and John can be fully verified in the sayings of Christ.
______________________________________

I hope Kentucky's post summed up the reason for speaking in tongues for everyone who may have questions. His brief explanation should be all that a Bible-reading Christian needs. If a longer study is required, please see my recent Acts chapter 2 commentary here:
http://christogenea.org/content/book-acts-chapter-2-part-1-christogenea-internet-radio-05-03-2013
http://christogenea.org/content/book-acts-chapter-2-part-2-christogenea-internet-radio-05-10-2013

I hope this helps!

[wmfinck]

Seems like my response was lost in the recent hiccup on the site...

Sorry Nayto, but the ISP where I had nearly all of Christogenea (and KinsmanRedeemer and Israelect) shut all of my servers down without notice, along with their entire operation. I was able to recover it all from backups I had on other servers, however there was roughly a ten-hour period between the backups and the shut-down, and anything posted in that period is lost, a circumstance beyond my control.

Here is the bright side: I would bet that ninety-nine percent of websites which suffered such an event would not come back for a long time. Praise Yahweh!

[brucebohn]

Here is the bright side: I would bet that ninety-nine percent of websites which suffered such an event would not come back for a long time. Praise Yahweh!

Praise Yahweh for your technical knowhow & all of your hard work Bill.......

[Nayto]

Sorry Nayto, but the ISP where I had nearly all of Christogenea (and KinsmanRedeemer and Israelect) shut all of my servers down without notice

No worries at all. My second attempt was more concise anyway, so probably for the best.

Thanks for your response as well. It actually ties nicely in with a conversation I'm having with someone outside of the this site. It's amazing how many angles from which one can approach theological truths in scripture.