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Eye Color

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Eye Color

Postby Lilkanga » Tue May 18, 2010 8:01 am

In another thread, Matthew mentioned the eye and hair color of his two youngons. This brought to mind a subject I have personally been looking hard at over the last several months based upon a question in my own mind concerning Deut. 23:2.

"A bastard doth not enter into the assembly of YHWH; even a tenth generation of him doth not enter into the assembly of YHWH."

My question is, how did the leaders and ones in charge of the temple and assembly worship, know that a new person who just walked into their midst was a mamzer? Six, seven, even ten generations later?

Skin color? I do not think so. I've seen what I would call very white people, who swore up and down that their ancestors mixed seed with a Negro or Asian and not six or seven generations back, but only three or four.

Hair color? Maybe, but hair color can be masked by gray in a person's old age or even cut, etc.

I'm thinking it has to do with eye color, but I'm not sure how. My wife has the most brilliant blue eyes, deep and bright that seem to go on forever. My eyes are blue, but they have a tent of green and even gold. I've been comparing eye color to people personalities of late and I hope I do not offend anyone here, but I've noticed that people with green eyes are incredibly mean, not all mind you, but most mean spirited people do have green eyes.

Now, there was plenty of a mean spirit in the tribes of Israel. Simeon comes to mind. Levi, as well. I'm just thinking out loud, now. >grin<

I've also been listening closely to what Bill might have to say on this matter in all the past shows that I am going through. I've listened to about 40 shows, but have not heard his thoughts on this subject.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Blessings to all you restorers of truth, in the name of YHWH.


Re: Eye Color

Postby PILGRIM » Tue May 18, 2010 10:50 am

Well, I believe I have heard Bill say in the past that they kept very strict genealogical records back then and I think no one would have gotten into the temple without being able to prove, through such records, who and what they were. I don't think they had a wide-open door policy like the current self-styled judeo "churches", not even for just any passing biped that looked like they might be okay. Could be wrong here, I'm working with frequently dysfunctional memory cells... :?

And I am afraid I must disagree ... I have known some exceptionally, incredibly wonderful green and hazel eyed people! Many do seem to have an honesty streak that sometimes may be misinterpreted as "mean" by certain people though. :mrgreen:

Re: Eye Color

Postby Lilkanga » Tue May 18, 2010 7:08 pm

Hello Pilgrim,

Concerning the records kept during biblical times. I've thought about the records thing and I've come to the conclusion that would be impossible. I might be wrong, but 10 generations worth? Think about the last 200 years and your own family tree.

I know we've been dumbed down to the importance of such things, where as during those times I'm sure records were kept better than now concerning who's who, but 200 hundred years is a lot of water under the bridge. I still think there had to be a genetic way to tell.

Just to set the record straight, I also know a lot of green eyed people who are wonderfully truthful and nice, and I'm certainly not trying to put old green eyes in a bad light. I was just making an observation, thinking back in my own life time.

Good to hear from you Pilgrim,



Re: Eye Color

Postby JamesTheJust » Tue May 18, 2010 7:39 pm

I have known brown-eyed white people who would swear that there is no race-mixing in their geneology. (I have blue eyes BTW). I do not think we should get too caught up in this issue but rather discern as we were told..."by their fruits you will know them". YHWH is the judge and that is sufficient.

I have pondered why it is that YHWH has left this an open-ended question for us in this present day. I mean, who can state with absolute certainty that there is no mixture within them? Apart from a genetics test, how would we know? And if we had the test, who could be certain that we are even identifying the correct markers or that the results are reputable? (There are lots of Edomite jews with agendas)

When we look back on the Israelites of old, we can see that they did indeed keep meticulous records of their geneology, but what good did that do them? Were they better off? Did they not forsake their birthright - even to the point that YHWH divorced them? Perhaps their certain knowledge bred false pride?

And so here we are today; being uncertain; so why? Perhaps it is to humble us that we may seek YHWH with all due diligence and HUMILITY; being uncertain of our place, while being assured of HIS promises. And HIS promises are sure. We know for example that HE promised us that IF we seek we WILL find. And aren't we all here because that promise was fulfilled? And if that promise is for HIS people and HIS people alone, then can we not be assured that we are HIS people?

Aside from the obvious outward appearances, which we see with our worldly flesh eyes, what do your spiritual eyes "SEE"? Do you hate it when you fall short of YHWH's laws? Do you have HIS laws written in your heart? Do you seek HIM? I would venture to say that the OBVIOUS spiritual answer to these questions, for those in CI, is "obviously" YES!

FInally, we were warned of those who sneak into the assymbly of Israel UNAWARES. So, how can they sneak in unaware unless they look like us? The only way to be certain is by their fruits.
Ye chosen seed of Israel's race, ye ransomed from the fall, hail him who saves you by his grace, and crown him Lord of all. Hail him who saves you by his grace, and crown him Lord of all.
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Re: Eye Color

Postby Lilkanga » Tue May 18, 2010 8:58 pm


I thought that was very well said. Great points!!!

I still think there had to be some outward feature that the leaders of the tribes knew to distinguish one from another, however, your post is really well taken.

Blessings to you, my brother.


Re: Eye Color

Postby wmfinck » Wed May 19, 2010 3:40 pm

I am not going to go into too much length here, but I will offer a few scattered thoughts.

The Israelites indeed kept meticulous genealogical records, but not all in one book. It was the charge of the Levites in each of the towns to keep the records for the tribes to which they were assigned. That is part of how they were supposed to earn their ten percent. because we still have a part of the royal records, the king lines were (incompletely) preserved.

Blue and grey eyes were mentioned in ancient writings, however, because they are only on occasion mentioned in Greek writings, the way in which they were mentioned tells me that they were not predominant. For instance, Athena is often referred to as "Gray-eyed Athena". I have read at least one Mesopotamian inscription describing someone with eyes "like lapis lazuli", a blue mineral stone used for decorative purposes. Solomon's eyes are described as being like "pools of water", which may be blue or green, or even maybe grey.

The mosaics and other artworks of the Greeks and Romans shows a predominance of brown-eyed people long before any arab hordes invaded southern Europe.

And as an aside, my own eyes are bright blue, along with the eyes of everyone in my family whom I can remember, so I have no personal axe to grind in this matter.

It is apparent to me that the Old Testament Israelites could pretty much recognize what tribe their fellows were from on sight. Was this by dress? I do not think that archeology supports that (but that does not mean much, since there is so little good archeology). Perhaps it was by appearance. It is fully apparent that there were blonde Greeks and blonde Phoenicians, but also that there were red-haired Greeks and red-haired Phoenicians. Yet both King Solomon and Hector Prince of Troy were described as having raven hair.

Are Danaans red-heads? Was Asher blonde? Did Judah have raven hair? Arguments can be made, but then again, a few examples are not necessarily an entire tribe.

I know, this does not help much, but one day we will know all of these things!

Bill (and here's looking at you! LOL:)
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Re: Eye Color

Postby PILGRIM » Fri May 21, 2010 12:01 am

LOL! Okay ... eye check!!



Re: Eye Color

Postby matthewott » Sun May 23, 2010 2:34 am

Well, the "Eye Check" game seemed pretty fun and I wanted to play, and then I found out the Windows 7 I installed a few months ago wasn't recognizing my webcam (see how much I use it). So after spending a couple hours downloading new and different drivers, and ultimately, new application programs, I'm back in business and feeling frisky (even with this darn sinusitis). Instead of cropping out just my eyes, I'll give you my whole ugly mug. I told you PILGRIM, I'm on the frontline sweetheart, and have been for a long time..... 8-)

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Re: Eye Color

Postby warrior » Sun May 23, 2010 1:07 pm

Well you proved you are one of us Matt, but did you have to take the picture showing all that skin too??? This aint facebook : P

Re: Eye Color

Postby PILGRIM » Sun May 23, 2010 1:08 pm

matthewott wrote: I told you PILGRIM, I'm on the frontline sweetheart, and have been for a long time..... 8-)

LOL, Hon ...


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