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You're never too old to start

Gardening, Homesteading & Other Wholesome Topics

Re: You're never too old to start

Postby Joe » Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:07 pm

I use to lift weights when I was younger. When I saw this thread by Nayto I knew it is what I had been looking for. It was something I had to do and I enjoy it very much.

I do dead-lift, bench-press and squat with a full-length bar. Then I do bicep curls with a smaller bar. I do this 3 times a week (3 sets of 8, or 3 sets of 6 with an increase in weight). It is probably not the perfect routine but those exercises cover many bases. I am -not- going to do cardio ...and the weights do get the heart pumping.

I will tell you, when I first started squats I could not do the movement at all, I was very weak. I then got close to the proper movement with an embarrassingly weak amount of weight. Now I am still not doing as much as I bench-press or dead-lift but I am doing the movement properly.

It has been a couple weeks.
...and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
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Re: You're never too old to start

Postby Nayto » Mon Nov 23, 2015 12:27 pm

The best routine for a beginner is as follows:

A:

Three sets of squats for five reps each.
Three sets of presses for five reps each.
One deadlift set for five reps.

B:

Three sets of squats for five reps each.
Three sets of bench press for five reps each.
Three sets of chin ups each to failure.

On day one you'll do A, on day three you'll do B, on day five you'll do A. The following week on day one you'll do B, and so on. You can throw in power cleans if you're feeling confident.

Increase your squat weight by one kilogram each session. Increase your other lifts each session as well. Usually 1 kilogram is okay for a man. Maybe more if you think you can handle it. Don't be greedy though. Each set is done with the same weight. It's critical to rest enough between sets i.e. You must feel ready for the next set, but not have let your muscles cool down. This usually takes between 8 and 10 minutes between sets, but can range between 6 and 15 minutes.

Make sure you're gaining weight slowly and eating enough protein. Before you know it, you'll surprise yourself at your massive strength gains.

Make sure form is good too. I know there are some good videos on the Art of Manliness Youtube channel that they did with Mark Rippetoe.

Ideal is to just buy the Starting Strength book though.
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Re: You're never too old to start

Postby Joe » Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:35 am

Well I may get the book soon, I have to order some other books too. Just a couple questions to keep me going for now.

1)How do I know if I have enough protein.
Diet: I drink a lot of raw milk, I have one main meal with meat a day.
Would milk suffice for protein (I do not want to adulterate my milk with pea protein).

I do not eat sugar and I work at hard-labour so I do not understand how I got to be overweight this year. I think I am just getting too old and everything is on it's way out lol. Yep.

2) Would you hit a point where you could not increase your weights, I have added about 1kg+ per a week.

3) I enjoy the barbell exercises a lot, do people at the advanced level still do these simple exercises?
Power clean looks fun.

Lastly, I am doing more reps than you recommend. And I only take a one minute break. I will probably increase the weight and reduce the reps and rest a bit longer. I do not have anywhere to do chin-ups.
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Re: You're never too old to start

Postby Joe » Wed Nov 25, 2015 4:40 am

I have researched all those questions Nayto, so I don't need an answer on them. It seems some people will weigh the amount of carbs and protein they consume ...I will just make sure I am hitting around the right amount.

I reduced the reps and increased the weight by a couple kgs, it felt really good. Thanks for the tip. Rather than going through the motions, you feel you are in the zone the whole time. Really good.

I am at 68kg (I could have done a kg more) for bench press and dead lift. Bit less for squat which I have only been doing for two weeks.

17.5kg (not including the dumbbell) for bicep curl ...I cannot do chin-ups.

I am thinking of saving up for one these, I think it can catch the bar allowing you to do power cleans and there are ones that allow chin-ups too. What do you think?
https://www.hartsport.com.au/products/6-142
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Re: You're never too old to start

Postby Nayto » Wed Dec 16, 2015 2:26 pm

Joe wrote:I have researched all those questions Nayto, so I don't need an answer on them.


Hope you don't mind, but I'll answer anyway given that there are a million opinions out there and most of them are wrong. Also for the benefit of other readers.

Joe wrote:Well I may get the book soon, I have to order some other books too. Just a couple questions to keep me going for now.

1)How do I know if I have enough protein.
Diet: I drink a lot of raw milk, I have one main meal with meat a day.
Would milk suffice for protein (I do not want to adulterate my milk with pea protein).

I do not eat sugar and I work at hard-labour so I do not understand how I got to be overweight this year. I think I am just getting too old and everything is on it's way out lol. Yep.


You need about your lean body weight multiplied by 1.6 for weight gain. Maybe a bit more than that if you are losing weight.

Raw milk is really an amazing food for strength training. It's quite high in carbohydrates which are great for muscle growth, but the down side is that the rapid energy release of carbohydrates means the amount of fat gain will be higher as well (but if you do manual labour and don't have any other sugar, I suppose that will offset it). It has a fair amount of fat and protein which is good and you get the added bonus of some natural growth hormone in the milk. I personally drink about 500ml of milk around training time.

Joe wrote:2) Would you hit a point where you could not increase your weights, I have added about 1kg+ per a week.


Yes, absolutely. This is inevitable. One just needs slight adjustments to the programming to get further gains assuming you're sleeping and eating enough.

Joe wrote:3) I enjoy the barbell exercises a lot, do people at the advanced level still do these simple exercises?
Power clean looks fun.


Yes, for general strength the only exercises ever needed are squats, presses, dead lifts, bench press, power cleans and chin ups. Maybe add some power snatches there, but I haven't gotten into that myself. Those are the only lifts I actively train and I find that my strength naturally increases on everything else. I'm even training to do muscle ups which I should get right quite soon. I have the strength for it, but the technique still eludes me, lol.

There is just one exception to that rule and that's dead lifts. Given the mechanical nature of this movement, each set is incredibly intense and can become difficult to recover from in a week. Mark Rippetoe advocates separating the movement into three distinct yet overlapping movements in order to increase the strength of the dead lift itself. Having said that, I'll be deadlifting 204kg on Friday and I'm still cruising along without any issues (I do it every Friday and increase the weight by 1kg each time) i.e. You have to be really advanced in order for this to apply.

Joe wrote:Lastly, I am doing more reps than you recommend. And I only take a one minute break. I will probably increase the weight and reduce the reps and rest a bit longer. I do not have anywhere to do chin-ups.


Rest for one minute turns it into an endurance activity. One must rest for a full 8 minutes at least normally so that the muscles can replenish their energy. If you do a set of 5 and then rest for a minute and do another set of 5, the second set is testing your muscle's ability to work without much energy. What you want is to test the muscle's ability to lift the weight while having all the energy it needs. This is also why sets of 5 are needed, because a set of 5 doesn't put much pressure on the energy reserves of the muscle. It is more focused on the ability of the muscle fibers doing the work.

Short rests will work for you initially, but you'll quickly run into problems when you are adding weight each session.

Joe wrote:It seems some people will weigh the amount of carbs and protein they consume ...I will just make sure I am hitting around the right amount.


It depends on your current situation and what you want to achieve really.

Joe wrote:I reduced the reps and increased the weight by a couple kgs, it felt really good. [b]Thanks for the tip. Rather than going through the motions, you feel you are in the zone the whole time. Really good.


Once you learn to recruit the neuromuscular system fully and each set of 5 is the maximum you can do, you start to realize the massive amounts of mental conditioning and focus required.

Joe wrote:I am at 68kg (I could have done a kg more) for bench press and dead lift. Bit less for squat which I have only been doing for two weeks.

17.5kg (not including the dumbbell) for bicep curl ...I cannot do chin-ups.


If you're eating enough, as a man, it shouldn't be hard for you to start being able to do chin ups. Look for progression tutorials online and just go for it. You might surprise yourself.

Joe wrote:I am thinking of saving up for one these, I think it can catch the bar allowing you to do power cleans and there are ones that allow chin-ups too. What do you think?
https://www.hartsport.com.au/products/6-142


It looks like it could do the job fine. There's a chapter on training equipment in the Starting Strength book though. I'd suggest you read that before spending lots of money on equipment.

Ideally I would go for a set up like this though: http://www.roguefitness.com/rml-390c-power-rack

Wow, sorry for the long post. Lol.
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Re: You're never too old to start

Postby Joe » Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:04 am

Thanks for your long post and answers Nayto. Especially in reference to rest times.

I am sure people can find a list of high protein foods on the net and there are protein calculators too.
204kg is awesome. I wish I had started earlier.
My short-term goal is to get over 100kg. lol.
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Re: You're never too old to start

Postby Nayto » Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:42 pm

Joe wrote:204kg is awesome. I wish I had started earlier.


If I remember correctly, the raw world record is somewhere around 450kg, so I've got a long way to go! But yeah, I often think to myself as well that I wish I started earlier.
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Re: You're never too old to start

Postby Nayto » Thu Dec 17, 2015 5:28 pm

Really good watch. Quite emotional, but one of the great success stories of barbell training.

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Re: You're never too old to start

Postby Joe » Mon Dec 28, 2015 2:55 am

I am going to download that and watch it later, thanks.
Nayto do you use protein supplements?
I don't want to and I do have a protein rich diet with peanut butter, milk and meat (twice a day now) being some of my favourites.

But I also don't want to stifle my progress, so what is your advice on that?

I have gained 700 grams a week for the last 10 weeks and have not lost any weight so far. But I am stronger as I am now at 90+ kgs for barbell exercises. I have not really changed my diet so I am thinking it must be fine so long as I keep going.
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Re: You're never too old to start

Postby Nayto » Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:29 pm

Joe wrote:Nayto do you use protein supplements?


I use whey, but this is not necessary. Normally you need about 1.6g per kg of lean body weight per day and you can get that quota in any way you want to. Being a bit taller than average, my body weight is quite high so I would have to eat a lot of meat to reach that quota. To give my stomach and my pocket a bit of a break, I take a whey supplement over and above my usual diet. Given that whey digests very quickly, I usually have it after a training session when the muscles are craving it most.

Joe wrote:I don't want to and I do have a protein rich diet with peanut butter, milk and meat (twice a day now) being some of my favourites.

But I also don't want to stifle my progress, so what is your advice on that?


It might be worth it to calculate your protein consumption once and plan from there. It's not much effort really.

Joe wrote:I have gained 700 grams a week for the last 10 weeks and have not lost any weight so far. But I am stronger as I am now at 90+ kgs for barbell exercises. I have not really changed my diet so I am thinking it must be fine so long as I keep going.


If you're getting gains then yes, keep up up. Well done by the way. Just make sure you get the equipment to do presses as well! It is by far more important than a bench press.
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