Slaying Cain

[EzraLB]

In Genesis 4:14, Cain fears that because of his transgression, he will always be targeted by others for death:

"...And it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me."

But Yahweh reassures him that he will be spared:

"And the Lord said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the Lord set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him." Genesis 4:15

Not only is Cain protected but so are his descendants even more so:

"If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold." Genesis 4:24

If Cain is of the bloodline of the Serpent, why would Yahweh insist that Cain and his posterity be preserved, going so far as to set a mark upon him so that others will know not to touch him?

And again later, the Israelites are commanded to force the Caanites from the land rather than slay them, as some have asserted:

"But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell." Numbers 33:55

It seems as if the preservation of Cain and his posterity is essential to Yahweh's plan for the Israelites, perhaps to continually test their obedience--and as a constant reminder of their disobedience. That said, if anyone has any further insight into this issue, I'd greatly appreciate it.

[bahr]

The preservation of the serpent seedline is a necessity in Yahweh's eyes, because of the lie, the illusion planted in the mind of Adam-man through his weak part, the woman, by the serpent in the garden, which makes men to listen to the devil and his fake "knowledge" instead of listening to Yahweh's true knowledge, His Word, His Will, His Law. This terrible illusion is now called "humanism".

This hypnosis is so profound and so powerful that this results in the necessity of what we call "History": our punishment, our necessary path to the ultimate understanding of the wage of rebellion, which is death. And the vector of death in this world is precisely that serpent seedline, Cain, produced by ourself as a species, as the first result of that illusion. Cain and his descendants are therefore the tool which Yahweh will use from now on to punish us.

This is illustrated and demonstrated by Yahweh Himself, when He pronounces History, the punishment of Adam-man, in Gen. 3:17-19.

Yahweh is the only Master of weights and measures, and He only knows the time when the punishment will be fulfilled and the lesson learned.

[Gaius]

Ezra

Just a wee thought --
Maybe "Soli Deo Gloria" is the reason. Our people are increasingly occupied in self-destruction. We cannot defeat any enemy; we cannot stop lying, cheating, defrauding our own; we cannot cease persecuting our own widows and orphans; we seek 30 pieces of silver for betrayal of our own in imitation of a vile edomite, and aid Cain to kill Abel.
Yes, there are individual exceptions. But the general picture especially in the last say 150 years is suicide through wars, abortion, miscegenation, pornography and every kind of malevolent foolishness.

That this malignancy has been introduced by canaanites is maybe irrelevant. Israelites have historically not needed canaanites (etc.) to "make" us err from YHWH's Law. We have enthusiastically done it ourselves. WE are the problem and we, of/by ourselves cannot come near to solving that problem.

The canaanite is perhaps preserved, and even appears to flourish, to demonstrate that the final and certain Victory will be 100% due to our Kinsman Redeemer and to Him alone will be the Glory.

[bahr]

That this malignancy has been introduced by canaanites is maybe irrelevant. Israelites have historically not needed canaanites (etc.) to "make" us err from YHWH's Law. We have enthusiastically done it ourselves. WE are the problem and we, of/by ourselves cannot come near to solving that problem.

Irrelevant? Are Scriptures irrelevant?

I John 3:9-12:

Children, let no one deceive you, he who is bringing about justice is just, even as He is just. He who is creating error is from of the False Accuser, since the False Accuser errs from the beginning. For this the Son of Yahweh has been made manifest, in order that He would do away with the works of the False accuser. Each who has been born from of Yahweh does not create wrongdoing, because His seed abides in him, and he is not able to do wrong, because from of Yahweh he has been born. By this are manifest the children of Yahweh and the children of the False Accuser. All who are not bringing about justice are not from of Yahweh, and he not loving his brother, because this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. Not as Kain who was from of the Wicked One and slaughtered his brother; and with delight he slaughtered him, because his deeds were evil, but those of his brother righteous.

[Kentucky]

If Cain is of the bloodline of the Serpent, why would Yahweh insist that Cain and his posterity be preserved, going so far as to set a mark upon him so that others will know not to touch him?

That's a big "IF' upon which so many theories are predicated upon. If, on the other hand, the connection between Cain and Canaanites could possibly be speculation, and Cain ended up in China (having gone east of Eden), then, if I may speculate, to figure China ("kings of the east") may be God's instrument in bringing down Mystery Babylon. Israelites did not defeat ancient Babylon and the pattern may be the same for modern Babylon.

And again later, the Israelites are commanded to force the Caanites from the land rather than slay them, as some have asserted:

"But if ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell." Numbers 33:55

"Drive out" may be a poor translation as the LXX says, "But if ye will not destroy the dwellers in the land from before you" as well as the Douay-Rheims, "But if you will not kill the inhabitants of the land: they that remain, shall be unto you as nails in your eyes." This is substantiated in Deut. 20:16, ""Only in the cities of these peoples that the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes." After all, the Promised Land did not belong to the Canaanites, it belonged to God.

It seems as if the preservation of Cain and his posterity is essential to Yahweh's plan for the Israelites,

That would be a hard pill to swallow, given the two possibilities that the descendent's of Cain could either be jews or orientals. The exquisite irony is that both are hybrid mongrels. If it is the latter, my comments above might explain why. If, however, we are talking about jews, then the only eternal plan of God I see developing is the eternal conflict between Jacob-israel and Esau-Edom. As an exterminationist, I believe our hope should always be the methodolgy in which to eliminate the adversaries of God i.e. the jews, not their preservation, through repentance and racial purity of our own race. It's not that the jew is essential; it's that the jew is expendable and unnecessary. The great mass of apostate Christians should repent of the jew and their holocaust will quickly follow, fulfilling their prophetic extermination. Is it too far fetched to think that God could use aliens i.e. descendents of Cain in China, to destroy alien Edomite jews that control the final culmination of an economic/religious consortium wanting to rule the world?

Mark

[Gaius]

That this malignancy has been introduced by canaanites is maybe irrelevant. Israelites have historically not needed canaanites (etc.) to "make" us err from YHWH's Law. We have enthusiastically done it ourselves. WE are the problem and we, of/by ourselves cannot come near to solving that problem.

Irrelevant? Are Scriptures irrelevant?

I John 3:9-12:

Children, let no one deceive you, he who is bringing about justice is just, even as He is just. He who is creating error is from of the False Accuser, since the False Accuser errs from the beginning. For this the Son of Yahweh has been made manifest, in order that He would do away with the works of the False accuser. Each who has been born from of Yahweh does not create wrongdoing, because His seed abides in him, and he is not able to do wrong, because from of Yahweh he has been born. By this are manifest the children of Yahweh and the children of the False Accuser. All who are not bringing about justice are not from of Yahweh, and he not loving his brother, because this is the message which you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. Not as Kain who was from of the Wicked One and slaughtered his brother; and with delight he slaughtered him, because his deeds were evil, but those of his brother righteous.

Of course Scripture is not irrelevant, bahr, nor is that what I said or intended to say.
You have missed the point I was attempting to make.
It was not to deny the malignancy of canaanites.
But rather that our own people follow in their ways, even enthusiastically do so.
Furthermore there have been, and are to this very day, very many examples when our people did not and do not even require prompting to do wrong (e.g. Ezekiel chapter 8).

[brucebohn]

If Cain is of the bloodline of the Serpent, why would Yahweh insist that Cain and his posterity be preserved, going so far as to set a mark upon him so that others will know not to touch him?

That's a big "IF' upon which so many theories are predicated upon. If, on the other hand, the connection between Cain and Canaanites could possibly be speculation, and Cain ended up in China (having gone east of Eden), then, if I may speculate, to figure China ("kings of the east") may be God's instrument in bringing down Mystery Babylon. Israelites did not defeat ancient Babylon and the pattern may be the same for modern Babylon.

Yes Mark, my thoughts were along the same line.....

[Fenwick]

That's a big "IF' upon which so many theories are predicated upon. If, on the other hand, the connection between Cain and Canaanites could possibly be speculation, and Cain ended up in China (having gone east of Eden), then, if I may speculate, to figure China ("kings of the east") may be God's instrument in bringing down Mystery Babylon. Israelites did not defeat ancient Babylon and the pattern may be the same for modern Babylon.

I had personally speculated if there was some linguistic link between "Khan" and "Cain" or perhaps "Cohen".

There were apparently white horse-nomads in the region in ancient times, and a lot of them are interbred with Mongols via the Tatars. Given the Mongol integration with the Chinese nobility during the conquests, that would mean there would be a fair bit of mixed Adamic blood in China, as with the Edomites. I don't suppose it would be entirely far-fetched for Cain's descendants to have ended up there too.

[EzraLB]

Mark,
I'm not sure how you are making the leap from "on the east of Eden" all the way to China. After all, the Bible is more specific than just "east of Eden" as it locates Cain in the "Land Of Nod," and from the concordance, "Nod" merely means "wanderer". Could this not be a the first reference to the idea of the "wandering Jew"?

But the concept of "wanderer" seems to conflict with the idea that Cain then builds the first city. Wanderers don't build cities, nor do Jews. I can reconcile this only by seeing Cain himself not as a wanderer, but rather he lives among people who traditionally are wanderers, like the historical Arabs.

Also, at this time in history, China had no cities, nor was it, as far as I know, part of the known world or oikumene. The phrase "on the east of Eden" suggests a close proximity to Eden, not in the Far East as we know it, and certainly not on the other side of the world.

I admit that linking Cain to the Canaanites is speculation on my part, but it seems clear that the wives he took were not of Adamic stock. For me, this is made evident from the fact that beyond names, nothing more specific is given about his progeny, as opposed to the descendants of Adam where specific ages are mentioned--and this distinction has a clear purpose in establishing bloodline, which the Canaanites do not.

And I understand the different translations of Numbers 33:55, as you pointed out. Instead of "forcing out" the Canaanites, it has also been rendered "destroy" or "kill" them. But if that is more accurate, then that would preclude the idea that the Canaanites are the physical descendants of Cain, because of the commandment not to kill Cain or his physical seedline. Is there Scriptural evidence that the Canaanites are a distinct people from the seedline of Cain?

And as far as the Chinese being part of Revelations to help bring about the fall of Babylon, you'll have to show me in the Scripture where you are getting that from. While Bill would be the first to admit that his series on Revelations is not the last word on it, I don't recall him mentioning anything about how China may figure into the end times prophecy.

[wmfinck]

Several times in Scripture, we see that the pagans traditionally intermarried among differing tribes as a way of having peaceful relations with those who dwelt in their vicinity. For instance, Genesis 34:21: "These men are peaceable with us; therefore let them dwell in the land, and trade therein; for the land, behold, it is large enough for them; let us take their daughters to us for wives, and let us give them our daughters."

This practice was so common, that the children of Israel were many times told explicitly not to engage in it, but to remain separate from all of these other peoples.

So where Genesis chapter 15 lists the peoples of Canaan as "19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, 20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, 21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites" are we to imagine that if these tribes had dwelt together for so long, that they did not "take their daughters to us for wives, and let us give them our daughters"? Can we continue to imagine that they did not intermarry when we even see the same practice in Egyptian treaties with the Hittites?

The blood of the Kenites and the Rephaim was surely intermingled with the blood of the Canaanites and the other peoples of that land, and probably to a great degree, after centuries of dwelling together in the land of Canaan, as the Scriptural narrative attests. Their gods compelled them to mingle. However the God of Israel forbid the Israelites from mingling, and when they did they were punished for it (Judges chapter 3).

So the Kenites (descendants of Cain) certainly did mingle with the Canaanites (descendants of Canaan), who in turn Esau intermarried with. If the Edomites did not have any Kenite blood in their veins, then Christ would not have been able to hold them accountable for the blood of Abel.

As for the land of Nod, which is the land of wandering: one's entire Weltanschauung has to change from the typical understanding of Scripture in order to understand this one. There were races here from the "fallen angels". They were in rebellion against God. That is why outside of the Garden of God where He planted Adam, was called the "land of wandering". It was inhabited by peoples created in the sin of the fallen angels who corrupted God's creation.

I would esteem that from among these came those "sons of heaven" (not "sons of God" as we see in the Masoretic Text and some manuscripts of the LXX) who again attempted to corrupt the Adamic race in Genesis chapter 6.

This is part of what I tried to express in Pragmatic Genesis. Surely it is only one interpretation in a sea of many. But it agrees with all New Testament scripture.

The idea that Lamech slew Cain is floating around CI for many years, taken from Apocryphal literature which I personally cannot accept as being Scripture. Lamech's attestation of his crime is found in Genesis 4:23: "And Lamech said unto his wives, Adah and Zillah, Hear my voice; ye wives of Lamech, hearken unto my speech: for I have slain a man to my wounding, and a young man to my hurt."

The words "I have slain a man to my wounding" are followed by a linguistic parallelism in the words "and a young man to my hurt". Both phrases refer to the same man. Understanding that, Lamech slew a young man, and at this time Cain would have been a very old man, if indeed he was still living at all.

Genesis 4:25 does not follow 4:24 chronologically. Rather, 4:16 through 4:24 are a long digression from the chronological narrative to tell the account of the early descendants of Cain, and then 4:25 brings us back to what happened with Adam after Cain's departure in 4:16.

The words of Lamech where he said "If Cain shall be avenged sevenfold, truly Lamech seventy and sevenfold" are Lamech's own boast. They are not necessarily true because they are the words of Lamech, and not of Yahweh. Cain had said "Am I my brother's keeper?" We do not accept that as a truth, so neither should we accept the words of Lamech as a truth: they are only an empty boast by a proto-Sadducee.

Yahweh assured Cain that he would not be slain, because if he were slain then the words to the serpent in Genesis 3:15, which Christ upheld in the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares, would not be fulfilled. But this is for Adam's benefit, that he learn the consequences of sin, and not for the benefit of Cain.

There is a China connection to the seed of the serpent, but it is not found in Cain directly. Rather, it is evident that the Edomites, the "bad figs" of Judah who mixed with them and set themselves up in Babylonia, and possibly even others of the sort earlier, had been running the trade routes through India for a long time. In addition, it is apparent that Arab traders had been running African slaves into India, China and elsewhere as far back as 750 BC. There is apparently Edomite, Arab and African negro blood in India, Indonesia and Southeast Asia for a long time, and some of it is in the Chinese as well.

Anyone who thinks that any of the yellow or brown races are "pure" is living in a Jewish fantasy. Sort of like that other Jewish fanatic that calls me an "exterminationist".

As for China and the Chinese, I did not mention them explicitly because they are not a power of their own. Rather, anything they do or are able to do, is afforded to them by the International bankers who control them. The Chinese are certainly a part of the flood from the mouth of the serpent, and among the nations surrounding the camp of the saints.

Edited for late note:

Comparet had made the mistake of tying 1960's geopolitics to his Revelation interpretation, and it failed. I avoided that error. I believe the 8th and final beast is the Edomite world banking system, no doubt, but I am not going to guess at what it is going to do, or at exactly how Babylon is going to fall. That is beyond our knowledge, so I will leave it there.