Are the Dead Alive Now? (NO, if you are a Sadducee!)

[JamesTheJust]

Took this from the book of II Esdras. Seems to me that the "dead" are pretty much alive.

THE SCORNERS: 7:79If it is one of those who have shown scorn and have not kept the way of the Most High, who have despised his law and hated those who fear God--80 such spirits shall not enter into habitations [Delight and Rest], but shall immediately wander about in torments [Fire of passions and grief], always grieving and sad, in seven ways. 81The first way, because they have scorned the law of the Most High. 82The second way, because they cannot now make a good repentance so that they may live. 83The third way, they shall see the reward laid up for those who have trusted the covenants of the Most High. 84The fourth way, they shall consider the torment laid up for themselves in the last days. 85The fifth way, they shall see how the habitations of the others are guarded by angels in profound quiet. 86The sixth way, they shall see how some of them will cross over into torments. 87The seventh way, which is worse than all the ways that have been mentioned, because they shall utterly waste away in confusion and be consumed with shame, and shall wither with fear at seeing the glory of the Most High in whose presence they sinned while they were alive, and in whose presence they are to be judged in the last times.

THE RIGHTEOUS: 7:88 "Now this is the order of those who have kept the ways of the Most High, when they shall be separated from their mortal body. 89During the time that they lived in it, they laboriously served the Most High, and withstood danger every hour so that they might keep the law of the Lawgiver perfectly. 90Therefore this is the teaching concerning them: 91First of all, they shall with great joy see the glory of Him who receives them, for they shall have rest in seven orders. 92 The first order, because they have striven with great effort to overcome the evil thought that was formed with them, so that it might not lead them astray from life into death. 93The second order, because they see the perplexity in which the souls of the ungodly wander and the punishment that awaits them. 94The third order, they see the witness that He who formed them bears concerning them, that throughout their life they kept the law with which they were entrusted. 95The fourth order, they understand the rest [See Hebrews 3 & 4 re: rest!] that they now enjoy, being gathered into their chambers and guarded by angels in profound quiet, and the glory waiting for them in the last days. 96The fifth order, they rejoice that they have now escaped what is corruptible and shall inherit what is to come; and besides they see the straits and toils from which they have been delivered, and the spacious liberty that they are to receive and enjoy in immortality. 97The sixth order, when it is shown them how their face is to shine like the sun, and how they are to be made like the light of the stars, being incorruptible from then on. 98The seventh order, which is greater than all that have been mentioned, because they shall rejoice with boldness, and shall be confident without confusion, and shall be glad without fear, for they press forward to see the face of Him whom they served in life and from Whom they are to receive their reward when glorified. 99This is the order of the souls of the righteous, as henceforth is announced; and the previously mentioned are the ways of torment that those who would not give heed shall suffer hereafter."

[matthewott]

How absolutely profound, James! I am not very familiar with Esdras, so these verses come as a complete surprise as being so descriptive. Those verses virtually conclude this discussion! Kudos, James! Awesome find!

[JamesTheJust]

Matthew,

The book of II Esdras (some say IV Esdras and some say Ezra) - is a fascinating book!

It covers not only the destruction of Jerusalem and Babylonian captivity, but also spends a great deal of prophesy on the END TIME events.

Here is the link: http://divinepageant.com/ii_esdras.htm

[Mountainman]

Regarding SaxonJackson’s reply:

Most of your references speak of life after resurrection at the last day and therefore SUPPORT my premise that Yahwey’s Word teaches Life AFTER the resurrection rather than immediately after death.

Except for Luke 23: 42-43 “Verily I say unto thee, Today thou shalt be with me in paradise.”

I believe the comma should be after the word “Today.” That verse would then read “Verily I say unto thee today, thou shalt be with me in paradise.”

To illustrate an idiom’s use imagine he said “verily I say unto thee today, These nails in my hands hurt.” “Verily I say unto thee today, I have not seen a finer wedding reception no not in all Israel”

Paradise is a place here on earth. Yashua was not in paradise that day, he was in the grave – for 3 days. Paradise has not yet been established.

I have heard William Finck agree that the phrase “Verily I say unto thee” is an idiom of the time. William Finck does NOT believe the comma should be after “Today” but IMO the conviction meter I heard in his voice when he addressed this issue was at a #6.


Regarding Matthewott’s reply: “and only ONE Adamite ever escaped the physical death...Enoch! How can "Eternal Life" be thrown around the bible so willy-nilly”

My reply to Enoch is the same as my reply to Matthew 27: 52-53 “graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose.” I believe these verses teach in life AFTER resurrection FROM the dead and support my premise. These verses teach a limited few additional people other than J.C. have been resurrected FROM the dead with eternal-life spirit-body.

However, I believe the Word teaches that Enoch too is dead. Hebrews 11: 13 “Thse all died in faith, not having received the promises,”

Enoch was translated from point A to point B here on earth so that he would not physically see death.

I agree with V.P. Wierwille that Matthew 27 52-53 has been erroneously added to the Word.

Also, I disagree with you about Eternal Life being thrown around willy-nilly. It does NOT mention it much in the Old Testament (Saul consulted “familiar spirits” which were devil spirits). In contrast, the New Testament discusses this issue a lot because JC was going to be resurrected from the dead soon and he was surrounded by people who were erroneously teaching rewards and punishments immediately after death. JC had clear up this error by teaching life AFTER the resurrection FROM the dead.

Regarding James the Just and II Esdras. I don’t see this book mentioned as being one of the books included in the original KJ version (going by a link that Eli James sent me).

http://etext.virginia.edu/kjv.browse.html

Do you see it? Please help.

God Bless!

Mountain Man

[matthewott]

This life after resurrection you keep pursuing is simply continued existence in renewed flesh. The premise of resurrection is that OF THE BODY ONLY! Our spirits must exist in order to re-inhabit the new resurrected bodies.

I, too, was a believer in the premise of the comma after "today", but all you have to do is review scripture to see that Yahshua always said "verily, verily, I say unto you," and it is never written as "I say unto you today,". Also,"today", to Yahweh (Yahshua) can mean a thousand years.

How can Enoch be dead, but not "physically see death"? Where is it written anywhere in the bible or any other book REFUTING the fact that scriptures illustrates that Enoch DID NOT DIE. Your vague reference to Heb. 11:13 easily validates a billions:one ratio relating to "Those all died".

As for Matthew 27:52-53, I feel the same way, to a degree. There doesn't seem to be anything out there to INvalidate those verses, but because they seem so out of context, I don't ever use them as a reference.

Since Yahshua is our kinsman, wouldn't you agree we then carry the same characteristics? Yahshua 'just' had more Yahweh "crammed" into him. You agree that Yahshua was "in the grave" for 3 days, which, incidentally, was the validation of his Messiahship. In order for Him to BE IN anywhere, for any length of time, He must exist! Therefore, when we make it to the grave (our bodies die), we aren't strong enough to resurrect our bodies, so we rest there until Yahweh returns in His fleshly form as Yahshua to resurrect our bodies. Then our spirits can leave that place of rest and rejoin our new bodies to live with Yahshua on earth, in New Jerusalem.

How is it not discussed much in the OT? What are the Covenants and Promises all about??? And the "erroneous teachings" Yahshua preached against were those OF THE JEWS! Yahshua never preached that your spirit ceases to exist until the time of the resurrection of our earthly bodies. Yahshua preached ETERNAL LIFE and THE RESURRECTION, both independent of one another, but used in conjuction.

As for II Esdras not being an original book of the KJV, it is still an apocryphal book, and the determination of which books are or are not canonical has been in the hands of ecclesiastical men for 1500 years, so I don't take much creedance in your discrediting it's validity to the topic.

[wmfinck]

Regarding SaxonJackson’s reply:

I have heard William Finck agree that the phrase “Verily I say unto thee” is an idiom of the time. William Finck does NOT believe the comma should be after “Today” but IMO the conviction meter I heard in his voice when he addressed this issue was at a #6.
Mountain Man

This is the stupid saying of the week. Take your freudian conviction meter back to the kike you bought it off and choke his dirty neck to get your money back. The Greek word order of Luke 23:43 makes your reading practically impossible.

[Mountainman]

Paradise is a place here on earth. Paradise has not been established yet. JC was not in paradise That Day. He was in the grave.

[matthewott]

I guess you didn't read my previous response. One day to Yahweh can be a thousand years. That is but one premise discrediting you. Where does it say that paradise is only "a place on earth"? Isn't Yahweh's kingdom paradise? And what were the words Yahshua taught us..."Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come, thy will be done ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN..." Yes, He will bring paradise to earth when he returns, but that does not mean paradise does not exist now! Our spirits get a taste of heavenly paradise, which is what allows our spirits to rest, after the death of our bodies, according to II Esdras. Yahweh wants us to experience LIFE AS HE CREATED IT. That is why there is to be a resurrection of our bodies, renewed to their original, immortal intent. We just have to prove we deserve to be there, first, by residing in a pure, adamic body able to be resurrected, and then living in The Truth.

Mountain Man, your doctrine does nothing but support universalism. It discredits the validity of the entire seedline doctrine. It discredits the scriptural teaching of ETERNAL LIFE, which is NOT your doctrine of simply LIFE AFTER RESURRECTION, and entirely twists the resurrection into a confusing pretzel. We do NOT need to know where we go after death, for it may not be a "where" at all. I had expressed before that your doctrine only comes out of fear of "the unknown", worrying about the milk, instead of the meat.

[wmfinck]

Paradise is a place here on earth. Paradise has not been established yet. JC was not in paradise That Day. He was in the grave.

2 Corinthians 12:1-4 (CNT):1 A need to boast is truly not beneficial, but I do come into visions and revelations of the Prince. 2 Fourteen years ago I knew a man among the number of the Anointed, (whether in the body I know not, or outside of the body I know not: Yahweh knows,) such a man being carried off to the third region of heaven. 3 And I know such a man, (whether in the body or apart from the body I know not: Yahweh knows,) 4 that he had been carried off into that paradise, and he had heard unutterable sayings, which to speak with a man is not permitted.

Paradise is in heaven. Either stop making up your own Bible, or take your inventions to a fantasy board.

[Vandal]

Saul spoke to Samuel after Samuel had died. Paul talks about the existence of the consciousness independent from the body. There are many other places I can go with this. You deny the spiritual world. If you deny the spiritual world, that would make you a modern-day Sadducee!

People think that the spiritual world is "phantasmal" or "ghostlike" or "not solid." I would conjecture a few ideas and some symbolic illustrations in response to this. And I will respond to the heretical idea that we are not conscious when the physical body dies.

The Chief Ruler, Yahweh, organized his creation. He planted a garden with racial trees. One race was his crown of creation, the Tree of Life, later realized in the person of Yahshua Christ. The other tree he planted in the garden was an older race, realized in the person of Nachash, the serpent, the slick salesman who seduced Eve and gave us central banking and central dictatorship via his ggggggreat grandchildren. Now, Yahweh is the tree of life, so basically he planted a part of himself in the garden. More on that as we progress to examine some ideas.

Yahweh breathed into Adam the Breath of Life. This clearly indicates that breath is part of Yahweh coming into Adam. Then Adam became a living soul. You see, Adam was already created, already existed, was literally alive, but was NOT a "living soul" until Yahweh put a part of himself into Adam, the "breath of life."

Visser appropriately quoted the scripture, "Remember your Creator before the silver cord is snapped. Then the dust of mortals goes back to the ground as it was before, and the breath of life goes back to God who gave it."

The life in you, if you are Adamic, is not your own. It is Yahweh's breath. Your identity, your consciousness, is not in your body. It is in Yahweh. So it can't cease to exist. Neither can it cease to be conscious.

Our white race is a single distributed organism. We are not individuals. Individual liberty is a great lie, as you will see. There is liberty in being bound to christ, as a people, but not individual "rights." The concept of "rights" is enslaving us, because it separates us from "duty" to our race.

Jewish communism tries to force us to add jews, negroes, zipperheads, beaners, greasers, shaka zulus, monkeys, arabs, etc. into the body of our organism. But you can't transplant two livers into a creature that already has one without grotesque results.

We are the tree the Jew would like to choke and poison out of existence. Then they would force the new MONSANTO-type tree, a racial organism all messed up with missing organs and extra organs all over the place. The devil will deface the creation in any way he can. And he is striking at the root with race mixing. Remember, Cain forced the ground with MINGLED SEED. He was a race mixer. God HATED him. Cursed him.

Again, the life within Adamic man came from Yahweh. You are not an individual. You are part of a racial organism. Just like thousands of quaking aspens on one mountain all are growing from one single root, the white race is all growing from the root that is Yahweh. The other races are growing from a different root, and the mongrel races are an attack on every root by trying to splice them together unnaturally. When you mongrelize the white seed, you are sucking the life away from Yahweh and trying to give it to another root. Yah does not cotton to this idea or the experience of it.

Cows are alive, but they do not have the breath of life. They are not THE LIVING, just beasts. Yahweh is the God of the LIVING, not just of those who are physically alive. Remember, when John the Baptist spoke to the mongrel edomite jews he said "the axe is laid to the ROOT." He was referring to their root. Their tree is going to be removed from this garden.

Remember, Yahweh is the TREE OF LIFE. He is the root. We Adamites are all growing from that root. We're ONE TREE. The quaking aspen looks like a bunch of individual trees, but it is actually a single tree sprouting up over many acres.

Does this make sense to any of you?

If you are one aspen in that stand that dies, your life goes back to the root. You will be resurrected, and stand up (sprout up from the root) again. In the meantime, you, a little speck of Yahweh, are there with Him all the time, totally aware of the fact that you are, indeed, alive, and in the root, and part of the root, and inseperable from the root, and quite content with your circumstance. You CAN'T die spiritually unless Yahweh cuts you off. He did cut Satan off, and Satan became a different, and corrupt, root. We see the fruitless trees growing from the corrupt root.

Incidentally, the word "race" is from the older Germanic "rah-suh" and means in old German, "root."

All of this talk of roots and trees is just symbolic to illustrate what we can't see with our eyes.

Truth is, the spiritual world is solid, and our current sensory world and perceptions are currently phantasmal in comparison. To see the face of Yahweh in his full power would be much brighter than looking into the sun. It would fry most people like KFC. I don't want Kentucky Fried Eye Sockets so I'll just walk by faith until He is ready to shape me in a way that I can literally see Him. There is a place of waiting for those who pass on, as evidenced by the appearance of supposedly dead men in the scriptures. In fact, some early saints thought that Jesus was Elijah returned in a new body. But Peter knew he was an incarnation of Yahweh.

Yahweh is a spirit. And He has the power. Pretty solid, I think.

Matter is 99.9 percent empty space. What do you think fills all that "empty" space? The roots.

That's where Yahweh is hiding from our eyes, IMHO. And that's where those who have left their bodies are hidden from our eyes, too. Solid rock, which we can see, cannot block cosmic radiation. But an invisible magnetic field, a sort of "spiritual" force field, reflects the full force of the solar wind and deadly cosmic rays which would oblitherate our DNA which is our connection to the spirit. It seems to me that we are surrounded by the spiritual world, not vice versa. Matter is only one tenth of one percent of space, which leaves room for a contention that spirit is the other 99.9 percent.

As for where you go when you die, I don't care, because there comes judgment and resurrection. Even if there were no resurrection I would serve Yahweh and oppose His enemies for the sake of my children and grandchildren ten generations from now. So they could carry on. But I do know that I have a spirit because my spirit has left my body in times of injury and extreme shock. I am not my body. It's only a part of me. I passed out once as a teenager and distinctly remember coming back to my body, and voices of others on the other side speaking to me. In fact there were so many voices it was like a song that filled the whole universe.

But as for where your consciousness goes, it is not even in your body to begin with. It interfaces with your body via the brain, and the quality of that interface is determined by your genetic code, the race programmed into that code, etc. That's why the dark and mongrel races are incapable of true civil order--their genes do not allow the creative and ordering power of the spirit into their minds and hearts. So they live like a bunch of emotional animals that just want to breed and eat and destroy anything that threatens their chosen breeding and eating patterns. Some of them might have a consciousness from the world of spirit, but it is hampered by the body they have inherited. That makes them a danger (enemy) to those who can receive the full measure of the spirit. Those with the spirit don't live by the law of the jungle but rather by law and order, the law of the family, and cooperation. Mixing the races, or adding a little consciousness to an animal mentality makes them even more dangerous (jews). Imagine a monkey with an IQ of 120. He would be very dangerous and manipulative to get the most bananas. Change monkey to Jew and bananas to wealth and you have the Edomite, Khazar Jew. Jews even want it to be legal to breed with anything that can move or supplies friction, regardless of species or age, so warped is their survival instinct because of their degraded DNA. A survival instinct has been warped into an instinct to control without rhyme or reason, because control is, temporarily, survival, in a jungle sense.

Every living thing has a spirit that may or may not continue to exist after the body dies. It depends on the root that gives life to that living thing. Adamic Man has a fully developed spirit that is actually a little piece of Yahweh--the breath of life, growing directly from the root of the Tree of Life. If you are a piece of Yahweh, how could you not exist after you drop off your battered fleshly clay? You would be right there in His domain. Even the wicked will wait for judgment. Some will not be fit for the resurrection to life and will be resurrected to death. Meaning they'll probably be resurrected as negroes or nephilim on some other planet where they won't bother the Adamic souls who've overcome the warfare on this rock. Perhaps some will literally cease to exist entirely, having no source of life whatsoever. Gehenna as a picture of Hell alludes to this. This may be why the devils fear and tremble. When the axe is laid to the root, they are cut off--permanently.

Yahweh is more than just "the God" or "the Creator." He is a living being that spans all space and time. Adamic men are little extensions of Him into this earthly existence, little saplings sprouting from the root of a great Redwood. Well, at least some Adamic men are....

We are a race. We are of one root. By mixing with another root (tree) death came, because that other root was corrupt, and takes life rather than giving it. Without the death and rising of Christ, you would be disconnected from the root that is Yahweh, and the second death would take you. Satan knew this, and lying to Eve he said, "Ye shall not surely die, but you will become as gods, knowing good and evil." What he should have said is, "You will be joined to a dying root, and the life will be slowly sucked out of you and your offspring until all are dead."

Eating of the fruit signifies mixing it with yourself. This is why the natural branches were cut off the tree in scriptural illustration. Scripture says they will be grafted back in--reconnected to the vine and root. This is symbolic of race mixing being a destructive element to the whole organism, and taking the branches off to nourish them elsewhere, then grafting them back in when the time is right, to keep from polluting the main trunk via race mixing.

You see, when you race-mix, you don't just mingle seed. You are joining two separate roots together and one will have to kill the other to survive. That's why the Jews are trying to exterminate the white race. If they kill all of us, then they can continue to live in their degraded existence, but they must choke us out to keep getting life from the root.

Since we are not individuals but all part of one living being, when we behave like individuals the consequences are disastrous to the whole being. View our society full of pain, sin, wickedness, and chaos. Furthermore the errant "individual" must be separated from the other saplings to keep from infecting them with their disease, hence, JUDGMENT.

Remember that Satan is also a tree. A crooked one. Those nourished by him are all one organism. This should help you understand the group think mentality of Jews and Mongrels, and their almost mechanized and apparently orchestrated opposition to the white race at every turn. Satan is trying to stack the deck by having more attached to his root than are attached to Yahweh's root. He is trying to make his tree of knowledge overshadow and choke out the tree of life. This is why race-mixing is so important to the work of the devil and his children.

Eventually Yahweh is going to send a lot of life, anger and fire up from the roots to the saplings, who are going to spring to life and grow tall and crowd out the tares. The tares will be uprooted, and having no root, will be no more. Burned.

Now I hope all of this illustration can help one see the flaws in Mountainman's idea that we are not conscious at the death of the body. Our breath returns to the one who gave it. We are in essence inseparable from him, if we are grounded in the Tree of Life.

Verbal Vandal
http://vandal.sixserve.com