eternal punishment, and Israelites

[Filidh]

joe, i agree with you that all israel will be preserved. this is what i was saying, altho i might've been unclear: that even tho all israel will be preserved, some israelites will have no reward in their preservation. i'm also agreeing that this is why god chose abraham: becuz he was godfearing, and believed in god absolutely, altho i thought it was implied by my previous paragraph so i didn't state it outright. so, we're in agreement.

also, staro, i believe that the parable of the master and his slaves, with the one slave hiding his talent in the ground, does refer to yahweh as the master, and that the master wasn't godless, but rather, only thought to be godless by the one slave who didn't do anything with his talent. the other slaves clearly respected their master.

edit: it should also be realized that we are indeed slaves of god, not servants, as we don't belong to ourselves but were bought at a price. a servant is voluntary, but god owns us. slavery to god is a steppingstone to sonship, which is why paul called himself and us slaves to christ while it is also written that the slave doesn't abide in the house forever, but the son abides forever. the two statements are reconciled becuz if we're unable to be good slaves for god, then how are we ever going to be good sons for him?

or, in other words, if you see yourself as a slave to society, accept it, but seek out an opportunity to make yourself free, that you may become a slave to christ, and from that slavery progress into sonship. this is why, i believe, bill translated the greek word doulos as bondservant rather than just servant, implying that once our term of slavery is up, we progress into sonship, having proved ourselves loyal slaves.

open to correction if this is wrong, but i believe it's right.

[Joe]

Yeah staro brought-up a good point that I will have to think and learn more about.

Filidh, when I read your post I was nodding my head and just posted some things that popped in my head related to what you were saying. Kind-of being constructive not critical. Though both have their place. I agree with what you say about Abraham and some Israelites having little reward while being preserved, that was how I understood it too.

Edifying

[learningaboutCI]

Perhaps it is suitable that we aren't completely certain of the details. In like manner, we don't know the hour of His coming. We also don't know necessarily who the various beasts are, etc. That seems to be normal for the Revelation. And we see through a glass darkly. It doesn't seem to be given to us to have 20/20 vision on these matters.

Getting back to treasure in heaven, the main thing is, any time I focus on prayer, heaven, or my fellow Israelites, then my treasure is in heaven (whether heaven-amongst-us or heaven-to-come). To focus on those things keeps me away from sin or error, and helps me to be fruitful. When I prefer the way of the beasts, or think of pleasing only myself rather than focusing on heaven-here-or-later, then my treasure is not in heaven, and will be burnt up. As long as I do my best, then I can safely leave the rest up to Yahweh, Whose Creation it is anyway.

[learningaboutCI]

I just want to add that the argument in favor of all Israelites being redeemed and entering heaven seems generally superior. For example, read Bill's discussion of Matthew chapter 13. http://christogenea.org/podcasts/matthew-chapter-13

I guess the main problem is we're not sure exactly how, and for how long, wayward Israelites will be punished, how much shame some will experience and for which crimes, and things of this nature. I would like to think that even the worst race-mixing Israelites could somehow come to understand, in an instant, their error, and not have to endure any shame at all. After all they're only mistaken. I'm sure that over the centuries so many Israelites have been mistaken about so many things, that I would hope that rather than having lots of shame and hanging heads low in the world to come, that we could instead just learn the lesson and all have a great time together. Sorry if that sounds simple-minded but Yashua said to be like a child, so maybe I'm not too wrong. I just don't know what all the wailing and gnashing of teeth will be for, although, He did say there would be some.

Oh well, put treasure in heaven, and the bad will be burned up.

[Staropramen]

I would like to think that even the worst race-mixing Israelites could somehow come to understand, in an instant, their error, and not have to endure any shame at all. After all they're only mistaken.

This is why, as much as I hate to even think about it I'm periodically brutally honest about what I did. I want every White person that has committed this sin to know that there is a way out. I want them to understand that it's not just legalistic rhetoric but that Yahweh really can change the absolute worst sinner. I want them to understand that it is absolutely God's will for them to find whatever legal means available to wash their hands of their beast offspring and return to their people. That may sound horribly cruel in the minds of every beast and many Israelites but it is nonetheless Yahweh's desire for His children. I'm sure that there are a considerable amount of White females out there who have birthed half-niglets , have been abandoned by the nigger sperm donor and know in their heart of hearts that it was a dreadful mistake.

[learningaboutCI]

Agreed, Starop. And I too committed that error, although only in the mind, not in the flesh. But, there but for the grace of God go I. Many of us probably were in a fog at some time or other.

I've thought many times, and I've heard Bill in a podcast say, that we tend to project our nature onto others, and assume they are like us except perhaps they are 'oppressed' or something. And so I think that, as an Israelite soul wends its way to heaven, its angels can say, "You know, they really aren't like people." And in an instant so much can be made clear. Non-Israelites only seem plausible insofar as they are benefitting from intense subsidy from us.

[Kentucky]

as an Israelite soul wends its way to heaven, its angels can say, "You know, they really aren't like people."

You know, I really have no idea what you're saying here.

Non-Israelites only seem plausible insofar as they are benefitting from intense subsidy from us.

Plausible? If you mean credibility for dwelling in our land, it's because of the intense universalism. You can't subsidize something without first rationalizing it.

Mark