British Israelism and Christian Identity? Differences?

[MikeTheAdamite]

Thanks Mark for doing the research and spotting that.It will teach me a lesson not to post an article without reading through it all first!
Still,it's interesting to know there are 'fakes' operating under CI,I'll have to be much more careful when googling for information in future!

[wmfinck]

Likewise, the BIWF clings to the kike "Yair Davidy" from Tel Aviv. So why would they not love these people?

Well, if Kentucky knows some BI who differ, I must ask, do they have a website? Is there a public face of any BI who despise the devils for what they really are? Just an honest inquiry.

[Kentucky]

Well, if Kentucky knows some BI who differ, I must ask, do they have a website? Is there a public face of any BI who despise the devils for what they really are? Just an honest inquiry.

To be honest, I haven't been in touch with these folks for about 15 years. I remember them coming down from British Columbia to Washington state where we were hosting one thing or another (such as a David Irving lecture) and they weren't the big wigs, but just rank and file, salt of the earth, like-minded brethren who were jew wise. They always brought with them their newsletter (I may still have them buried somewhere in my file cabinets), which I recall were adamantly "Holocaust deniers" and National Socialist sympathizers. Their organization may not be as radical as they were and you may find some tidbit on their website differing from your own views, but by and large, they are not old school British Israel espousing jews are Judah nonsense (at least I didn't see any indication of it from a cursory glance). Keep in mind that Canadian hate speech laws are enforced more there than here. Here's the link:

http://www.associationcovenantpeople.org

Mark

[MichaelAllen]

Well, if Kentucky knows some BI who differ, I must ask, do they have a website? Is there a public face of any BI who despise the devils for what they really are? Just an honest inquiry.

To be honest, I haven't been in touch with these folks for about 15 years. I remember them coming down from British Columbia to Washington state where we were hosting one thing or another (such as a David Irving lecture) and they weren't the big wigs, but just rank and file, salt of the earth, like-minded brethren who were jew wise. They always brought with them their newsletter (I may still have them buried somewhere in my file cabinets), which I recall were adamantly "Holocaust deniers" and National Socialist sympathizers. Their organization may not be as radical as they were and you may find some tidbit on their website differing from your own views, but by and large, they are not old school British Israel espousing jews are Judah nonsense (at least I didn't see any indication of it from a cursory glance). Keep in mind that Canadian hate speech laws are enforced more there than here. Here's the link:

http://www.associationcovenantpeople.org

Mark

Mark do you recall a sermon that Earl Jones preached called "Christian Identity vs. British Israel" at a gathering sometime back in the late 80s or early 90s? He basically boiled it down to the fact that the BIWF folks originally taught a flawed eschatology that would encompass the British Empire exclusively as the fulness of the nations (which we know Paul stated was happening in his own time), and that it was chiefly the capital tribe of Ephraim (who was promised not only the name of Israel, but the company of nations). Incidentally, even in a fairytale where the jews were Judah, they still wouldn't have the right to name the zionist state Israel, because the name designation is actually on the House of Joseph according to Genesis 48. But since the jews are actually satan, it really doesn't matter either way.

Earl mentioned that most BIWF folks had migrated away from that 'jews are judah' view, and at one time, the Central Intelligence Agency even published a memorandum that said to support identity movements, since they would be in accord with a one-world government. It's crazy to think that but it appears that this was true, and I believe that was sometime back in the 1950s. And even though the BI folks were not really following the jews are judah line, they still clung to a form of eschatology that was heavily influenced by pre-millenialism. Later on though, when the intelligentsia of the jews and the feds caught on to the fact that CI had sympathies for the German cause in the first half of the 20th century, they dropped us like a hot potato, and that's when the old-timers started taking their kicks... and yeah, Mark, sorry Sir, but that includes you! LOL!!

About four years ago, a particular CI pastor told me that the major shift away from BI to CI took place back in the era when Senator McCarthy was doing his work. A lot of men started to take note of the internal communist threat in America. A lot of men also became aware that the capitalists jews on Wall Street were the financial benefactors of the red revolution in Russia, and it was forty years later and the American jews were the communists here.

That led some of the more awakened BI folks to slip out of the back door and over to the CI camp, and it was at about that time that men such as Wesley Swift appeared on the scene.

Our movement has some really interesting history to it.

To be honest, I find the continued effort of some folks in both CI & BI to try to claim that David's throne is in London today to be quite negligent of New Testament scripture. Foremostly, I think most of that royal blood is contaminated and I am sorry for that, but it looks that way. But maybe even more importantly, the fact is that, just as Jesus Christ is the last priest, he is also the last king. The Melchizedek priesthood is both priest (religious/ceremonial) and king (civil). In Yahweh's order, there really is no such thing as a separation between the civil magistration and the religion of the covenant people, and historically when our people operated that way, God blessed us very richly. Our faith and our civil ethic are one and the same, and when you think about the Tabernacle of David... where David went and put the ark of the covenant, which was a religious relic, in the royal palace - well I think there are a lot of connections to be made there. Civil government is to be under the authority of God. How we view our God says a lot about how we view government, and vice-versa. But if you asked the modern mainstream churchian today what the significance of the tabernacle of David is, I think you'd be hard-pressed to get an answer.

[NSWolf]

thanks for the posts everyone,very interesting.
Keep them coming.

[Kentucky]

Mark do you recall a sermon that Earl Jones preached called "Christian Identity vs. British Israel" at a gathering sometime back in the late 80s or early 90s?.... Earl mentioned that most BIWF folks had migrated away from that 'jews are judah' view, and at one time

Yes, I was there when he made the presentation (at one of Pete's camps, don't remember the year). You forced me this morning to go through all of his newsletters, but couldn't find it. Maybe it was one of his "Lessons in History", which was over 20 parts. I did have a cassette tape of 'CI vs. BI' and looked in a box of over 100 tapes, but couldn't find it there either. Wow, I haven't listened to a cassette in years... lol.

the Central Intelligence Agency even published a memorandum that said to support identity movements, since they would be in accord with a one-world government. It's crazy to think that but it appears that this was true, and I believe that was sometime back in the 1950s. And even though the BI folks were not really following the jews are judah line, they still clung to a form of eschatology that was heavily influenced by pre-millenialism. Later on though, when the intelligentsia of the jews and the feds caught on to the fact that CI had sympathies for the German cause in the first half of the 20th century, they dropped us like a hot potato, and that's when the old-timers started taking their kicks... and yeah, Mark, sorry Sir, but that includes you! LOL!!

Ya lost me on that one. ???

Our movement has some really interesting history to it.

You got that right!!!

there really is no such thing as a separation between the civil magistration and the religion of the covenant people, and historically when our people operated that way, God blessed us very richly.

In that regard, I believe both BI and CI advocate theocracy.

Mark

[wmfinck]

Michael Allen is right, that it would be difficult to recognize a throne of David in the world today, with the monarchies in Europe being heavily bastardized. And he is also right, that the Melchizedek priesthood possessed by Christ incorporates the offices of both high-priest and king over the family of God.

However other factors must be considered. For instance, in Zechariah 12, where in part we may read "7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.... 10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn." These parties must be identifiable in the world, then and now. For Zechariah was a second-temple prophet.

Additionally, while Christ is our King and our High-Priest, the New Covenant is not consummated until His return and the destruction of His enemies, as we see for instance in Revelation chapters 19 through 20. We are not there yet. Rather, we are still in the Revelation 17:17 period.

While British Israel is indeed wrong about many things, all of the Scriptures must be considered, and they are not completely wrong about everything.