Gender in Resurrection?

[Staropramen]

Women are like the top part of an English Muffin. Firstly they are smaller. They are also weaker, you know how even though the muffin is fork split it's very easy to tear the top piece? Women are softer like the center part of the top whereas men are more rigid like the center part of the bottom. All in all though the top piece is the tastier of the two parts.

Observations while reading this thread and eating breakfast.

[Joe]

@Staropraman, I always appreciate your observations and thoughts, I have done so in a similar manner in your threads .

@Swordbretheren
You can't prove either way with Scripture or otherwise. Seems you think that questioning you amounts to questioning God, you are the one who fancies himself a god, not me. Yahweh is my God, His way is like our way, not like the nonsensical 'religions' of the animals, it is Truth, it is Bread, He always reveals Himself through logic and reason, not vain delusions. Zechariah is not important, I acknowledged that it was disputed, I also said that I was not implying that God has a wife and dismissed such pagan absurdities. God is beyond gender. Seems the 'prove it' line is simply being used as a vain confrontation as you cannot prove anything, thereby we are free to decide for ourselves, and in this way I prefer logic over sentimentalities. I think this is a core teaching of the Bible, that vain delusion is always overcome by reason and insight.

it is all emotionalism based on a very feminine sort of outlook that because we on Earth have male and female, the angels in heaven serving God must have male and female. The Bible doesn't tell us anything of the sort.

You don't seem to read my whole post, thus why you made the 'God wife' accusation. You are the emotionally charged one, accusing me falsely, unrelentingly pushing me to have this discussion and go off-topic. You have no Scripture ...the Bible does not require us to believe illogical and vain fantasies nor does it ever contradict logic, this is not a heresy simply because I am not willing to follow you into a dogmatic and unreasonable darkened pit (you can reserve that senseless place for the judeo-'christians'). I came to the Bible after I realised the beauty of it's logic ...how it was infallible. I have come across many philosophies and was starting to think my questions would go unanswered, then I was challenged by the Holy Bible, and defeated by Messiah, I now profess that He is True. My prayers have been answered in His name, but I learned that the best way to come to Him with an unrelenting faith is to test the Scripture and to find that it is True.

I had actually formed the best rebuttals you could come-up with, thinking you would use them ...but since you didn't, I will post them to better elucidate the beauty of the Aryan mind. Of-course the beginning of True wisdom is the fear of Yahweh, He is the Light of our minds and our spirits ...I Love Him with all my mind, all my heart and all my soul. My Faith is unassailable -because- of my approach.

Some rebuttals
-Adam was made before Eve, for sometime he did not have a female counter-part. Of-course I would say that he was lonely, he was not yet complete.
-Jesus had no female counterpart, He is beyond needing a wife I would say. But He is also married to Israel, the people are His body, one flesh. He is before Israel, Yahweh can raise Israel from the bones, but Adam was also before Eve. It does not contradict any logic.
-(in response to the Paul quote) The beast races do have a body, but they do not have a soul, seemingly contradicting Paul's statement (If there is a body, there is a spirit) ...but you have to remember that the beast-races are contrary to His Law and contrary to nature.

You should remember that nature is His creation, His Law. The only 'people' who contradict His Laws are the beast races.

Lastly I will post the cases again, my two in order of preference, then I will post your faulty, un-Scriptually sound (the Bible says they were male, which requires a female), dogmatic (to your own vain dogma) and illogical premise. I must thank-you for challenging me, it just helps me see that the Bible will always be True and that I was right to test Scripture to prove it for myself and grow in faith. It reminds me of the day I had to accept that He IS Messiah, the day all my seeking was not in vain, the day my thirst was finally sated.

1) There are female angels, they are unseen perhaps due to their female nature. Their existence is required for the male angels to correctly be called 'male', otherwise the male angels would not truly be male ...they would be something else. Which would justify my second premise (ie. in the case that there are no female angels, my second premise comes in-to-play).

2) The male angels are only called male as a matter of custom or as an abstract identifier to help us understand their nature and characteristics. In this case they are beyond male and female in the way they are beyond time and death. I have a problem with this as I believe that the Scripture is Truthful when it says they are male, and male and female is more than just your body, as Adam and Eve will be above the angels in the Resurrection and they had gender.

3) (SB's faulty non-Scriptural, emotionally charged premise)
The male angels are male, in the truest sense (somehow, as you cannot be male without a female), but there are no females. How something can be male, without a female counterpart is not to be questioned, this amounts to some-kind of heresy as SB has the mind of God while accusing (projecting) others of having the same attitude.

Question for SB, is this really about female angels? I find it hard to determine your intent... or why this is so important to you that you would accuse me of forsaking my God. Which is a heavy charge indeed. I think your intent was to belittle/forsake a Brother.

Edited to address Zechariah 5:9

It would be odd to switch between the two words, women and angels, if they were the same.

It would also be odd to describe 'Women' with wings, lifting up the measure between Heaven and earth. As it would be odd for a 'Man' to be able to disjoint the hollow of Jacobs thigh with a touch.

[Filidh]

first off, both of you guys should chill for a minute and not tear at eachother's throats. save that kind of anger for the enemy. it's possible to discuss things rationally and emotionally, because emotion is a good thing, while not being insulting and angerfilled. and two wrongs never make a right.

anyway, just a couple of things to add.

light is able to exist without darkness because darkness isn't the counterpart to light, but rather the absence of it. this is an example of a scalar 'a' being able to exist without its counterscalar 'b'. the idea that light needs darkness to exist is from of the fallen angels and reaches us in this age thru the teachings of the eastasians and their yin and yang, just for one example of it.

so just because there are male angels doesn't necessitate there being female angels.

that's all, other than that stop insulting eachother, because that never helps spur growth and understanding, it only helps spur resentment and bitterness.

[Joe]

^I agree on Light, but then this would suggest a different order of Light than the light and darkness of earth (ie. not the abract concept relating to good and evil, His Light is without equal). Thus male, as the angels are male, is an abstract or higher order identifier. They are only described to us as male because it is what we can understand ...my second premise.

On earth, absence of light is gradual, not absolute, as in space, as in the universe. There are degrees of brilliance, everything is relative to some other measure. A black-hole absorbs all light. Absence of light also manifest as how bright light is, this is an aspect of darkness, this is a polarity.Yahweh (He IS), He is not dependent, not relative, that is why He Is the Truth and His Light is True and unequaled/undivided, a different order.

I still prefer my first premise as I see no reason why angels cannot have male -and- female characteristics in actuality, not having angel children and angel sex ...and this does not imply that God has a wife.

I am a new guy, two wrongs don't make a right, but imagine you are being challenged by an esteemed member of the community. It is intimidating, and in my earlier post I was trying to bring it back to friendly. I have a beer next to the comment, SB didn't care for it ...it seems he just doesn't like me and wants to intimidate me so I will leave. But this is not important to me, I have been looking for CI my whole life, I don't care about making friends if it comes to that and I am banned for speaking honestly.

[Filidh]

haha, you're not gonna be banned for arguing, man.

i understand things get heated around here sometimes. and bryan (swordbrethren) does have a temper. he and i have had a few goes at eachother as well, just look at some of the other threads we were in such as the 9-page one in the hades subforum.

but it's like...in a family, you have different types. one is the shy brother in the corner, another is the jokester, another is the angry brother who sometimes lashes out when he doesn't need to, but in the end they all sit down and have dinner together and forget they were ever mad at eachother in the first place.

that's us here. so stick around and have no worries.

[Joe]

^You know what, I did get angry and lash out. But I respect SB, I listen to his podcasts with Bill and thought he was a top bloke. He is articulate in a way I am not. I am waiting on some timber, and so I have been posting too much but I have been reading Downey and Emahiser's work much more. I think Emahiser is a true inspiration to me, I love the questions he asks in his WTL's and how he always has some very interesting and intriguing insights.
This is my nature also.
I will keep my distance from Bryan now, he is entitled to feel and think as he does and I really don't know how to resolve this as I do disagree with him, if Scripture contradicted me, I would contemplate to resolve it with Scripture as the authority and my own musings being conformed until I understand.

You have a kind-heart Filidh.

[Staropramen]

but it's like...in a family, you have different types. one is the shy brother in the corner, another is the jokester, another is the angry brother who sometimes lashes out when he doesn't need to, but in the end they all sit down and have dinner together and forget they were ever mad at eachother in the first place.

Despite our differing perspectives on the bible one of the reasons the bond between my wife and I is so strong is that neither one of us know what this means.

[bahr]

We should stay focused on the things which concern us for our mission in this life on earth. The heaven, the angels, ultimate reality, etc, are not our business for now.

Think about all these "theologians", talking for centuries about concepts nobody can ever really understand, like the "nature of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit" for example. Try to read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity or this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filioque and tell me you understand something! It's pure garbage, a waste of time, and it leads only to the scattering of the flock.

[Kentucky]

We should stay focused on the things which concern us for our mission in this life on earth. The heaven, the angels, ultimate reality, etc, are not our business for now.

Think about all these "theologians", talking for centuries about concepts nobody can ever really understand, like the "nature of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit" for example. Try to read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity or this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filioque and tell me you understand something! It's pure garbage, a waste of time, and it leads only to the scattering of the flock.

I think you're right, it does fall into the category of 'how many angels dance on the head of pin?' But, we are an inquisitive and peculiar people, explorers of geography as well as ideas. The depth of our understanding may never be ascertained per man's methodology.

Here is our standard for finding answers to deep questions (from the CNT): "10 yet to us Yahweh reveals them through the Spirit; for the Spirit inquires of all things, even the depths of Yahweh. 11 Indeed of men who knows the things of mankind, except the spirit of man which is within him? Even so no one knows the things of Yahweh, except the Spirit of Yahweh. 12 Now we do not receive the spirit of the Society, but that spirit from Yahweh, in which case we should know the things granted to us by Yahweh; 13 which also we speak of, not instructed in words of human wisdom, but instructed in of the Spirit, by the spiritual compounding with the spiritual" I Cor. 2:10-13. In other words, collaboration and cooperation among brethren, comparing notes or piecing together parts of a jigsaw puzzle to discern the deeper things of God from what each of us has been given from God. And I think we know why lol. So that no one man may boast. It's God's way for us to have the bonds of unity when we work together with a humble spirit. Debate and discussion are two different worlds.

So, in this spirit of mutual investigation and a love for the truth (even though it is not necessarily critical to the salvation of Israel) let me pose yet another question in the vein of angelogical pursuits (just for the fun of it; to speculate towards something edifying) . If Eve was seduced by a male angel and Adam likewise succumbed, what then was the gender of Adam's seducer?

Mark

[bahr]

If Eve was seduced by a male angel and Adam likewise succumbed, what then was the gender of Adam's seducer?

I Timothy 2:14:

And Adam was not deceived, but the woman had been thoroughly beguiled when the transgression occurred.