Hi from Ukraine.

[wmfinck]

Well, if you say so.

[Xile]

Well, if you say so.

Wow, thanks I'm used to all the SF emotes.

[Acrimonious]

Hi Xile,

Welcome to Christogenea. I'm interested in tackling a bit of your judeo skepticism, but I have a speech and some papers to write for school in the next few weeks, so it may be a little while before I post my findings. 2 Timothy 3:16 states that Scripture is to be used for correcting (as well as other things), and it is our duty as followers of Christ to correct our misguided, judaized brethren. Being able to do so with a static argument, with dynamic supplemental information depending on the direction of the conversation, will be very useful.

[Xile]

Hi Xile,

Welcome to Christogenea. I'm interested in tackling a bit of your judeo skepticism, but I have a speech and some papers to write for school in the next few weeks, so it may be a little while before I post my findings. 2 Timothy 3:16 states that Scripture is to be used for correcting (as well as other things), and it is our duty as followers of Christ to correct our misguided, judaized brethren. Being able to do so with a static argument, with dynamic supplemental information depending on the direction of the conversation, will be very useful.

Excellent. I look forward to reading your reply! I may be able to learn much on the subject. It's the putting the pieces together that I always have trouble with. People might not be able to attack my beliefs directly, because I could memorize where something is written - if I actually try, but they might ask me something that I wouldn't be able to directly connect. I'm starting to suspect that it is useless to debate with someone who is not even on the same page as you.

For example: they will say, "Everyone is saved through Christ." I obviously won't deny what the scriptures say, but then we'd have to start from the beginning where I'd explain to them why nonwhites are not of the Adamic race and that they are excluded from the New Testament Laws (from the Old, as well). What good is my message when they reject the prologue? I'm actually having trouble with my dad on this, because he still sees the flood as a global occurrence. It won't matter if I talk about the "civilizations" and tribes that were living during the flood.

Then there is that inner battle with the suspension of disbelief coming into their mind and they will exclaim, "You're saying that God made people who could talk and have a conscience, but are not of Adam?!"

It's a struggle.

[Xile]

I may be half-Gagauz but why does it say that the genes are heterozygous, does that mean that I will have odd children? I'm talking about the dna test on Gagauzi people. Also, if I was mixed I wouldn't be able to feel the presence of God and He wouldn't show me the truth? How does one tell if they are 100% White??

[Filidh]

The Gagauzes are a small Turkish-speaking ethnic group living mostly in southern Moldova and northeastern Bulgaria. The origin of the Gagauzes is obscure. They may be descendants of the Turkic nomadic tribes from the Eurasian steppes, as suggested by the ‘‘Steppe’’ hypothesis, or have a complex Anatolian-steppe origin, as postulated by the ‘‘Seljuk’’ or ‘‘Anatolian’’ hypothesis. To distinguish these hypotheses, a sample of 89 Y-chromosomes representing two Gagauz populations from the Republic of Moldova was analyzed for 28 binary and seven STR polymorphisms. In the gene pool of the Gagauzes a total of 15 Y-haplogroups were identified, the most common being I-P37(20.2%), R-M17 (19.1%), G-M201 (13.5%), R-M269 (12.4%), and E-M78 (11.1%). The present Gagauz populations werecompared with other Balkan, Anatolian, and Central Asian populations by means of genetic distances, nonmetric multi-dimentional scaling and analyses of molecular variance. The analyses showed that Gagauzes belong to the Balkan populations, suggesting that the Gagauz language represents a case of language replacement in southeastern Europe.

from http://www.medgenetics.ru/UserFile/File/Varzar.pdf
http://www.unboundmedicine.com/medline/citation/11360805/To_the_research_of_the_gene_pool_of_the_Gagauz_population_of_Moldavia_

Heterozygosity occurs more frequently in racemixed folks, so that means it also occurs in racially-pure folks, just less frequently, so it isn't necessarily a determinant of being mixed.

That being said, we don't know if you're mixed. Like I told you before, when you made your intro post I looked up a bunch of pictures of Gagauzes and every single one of them looked Slavic, not Turkic, and because the Turks conquered some of the Balkans, they easily could've forced their language on the native folks.

However, there could be some Turkish admixture in the Gagauz, or there might not be, I myself don't know. I looked up some DNA research on the Gagauz folk, and all of it confirmed that they're genetically Slavic. But I myself am unable to tell you if you're mixed or not. Maybe some other posters can help you more.

[Joe]

The conclusion to the paper (posted above) on the genetics of the Gagauz people ...which lead me to do more investigation. They have a mysterious past, as with many peoples. I know nothing about slavs, bulgars or genetics, so it was difficult for me to understand most of the history.

http://www.medgenetics.ru/UserFile/File/Varzar.pdf
In conclusion, our Y-chromosome analysis indicates a strong similarity between Gagauzes and Balkan populations... Interestingly, using microsatellite markers, we also discovered some traces of recent Anatolian lineages in the Gagauz paternal gene pool. This discovery matches the hypothesis of a Seljuk (Anatolian) origin of the Gagauz language... Furthermore, we demonstrated that at the Balkan scale the Gagauzes are not a genetically homogeneous group. The observed genetic heterogeneity correlates well with the cultural and linguistic diversity among the Gagauzes and was presumably determined by the culturally and/or genetically heterogeneous environment on the Balkans. Genetic drift caused by cultural isolation and migration of Gagauzes from the Balkans to Bessarabia could also have facilitated the genetic differentiation among the Gagauz populations.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Gagauz.aspx (videos of Gagauz people singing, and more on right hand column, pictures of Gagauz: http://www.gagauzia.info.md/index.php?newsid=104)

http://www.geographictravels.com/2010_0 ... chive.html
The Gagauz are ethnic Turks. Their very name means “straight-nosed Turks.” There are two theories on how they reached present-day Moldova. The first theory is that they are descended from the Ottoman conquers of the 15th and 16th centuries. The other theory was more popular in the past. It stated that the Gagauz were descended from the Bulgars, also a Turkic people, who pillaged their way into Europe from the Central Asian steppes. The basis for this hypothesis is that Gagauz use to call themselves “true Bulgars” when they lived among the Bulgarians. They resented Bulgarians calling them "Gagauz" because it implied they were Turks like the Ottomans rather than a small “t” Turkic people like the Bulgarians who became Slavic in culture. Today the Gagauz prefer the Ottoman-origin theory.
No one knows when the conversion happened but the Gagauz are Eastern Orthodox Christians belonging to a See in the Russian Orthodox Church. During the 1800s the first noting of religion amongst the Gagauz was made. The Gagauz were being oppressed by the Ottomans for being Christian. Around this time Russian Orthodox Church was the only Orthodox Church not under Ottoman control and it was therefore a political statement to belong to it while living in the Ottoman Empire. The Gagauz probably converted from Sunni Islam due to missionary activity or, if the Bulgar theory is correct, converted out of a desire to be aligned with a free Orthodox church.
http://www.jewishtravelagency.com/Jewis ... gauzia.pdf
Gagauzia is distinct due to its main ethnic group. The Gagauz are a Turkic-speaking, Christian ethnic minority whose Muslim antecedents fled the Russo-Turkish wars in the 18th century. They were allowed to settle in the region in exchange for their conversion to Christianity. Their language is a dialect of Turkish, with its vocabulary in fluenced by Russian Orthodoxy as opposed to the Islamic influences inherent in Turkish. Gagauz look to Turkey for cultural inspiration and heritage.

wikipedia
According to some theories, the Gagauz people descend from the Seljuq Turks that settled in Dobruja, or from Pechenegs, Uz (Oghuz) and Cuman (Kipchak) people that followed the Anatolian Seljuq Sultan Izzeddin Keykavus II (1236–1276). More specifically, one clan of Oghuz Turks migrated to the Balkans during the inter-tribal conflicts with other Turks. This Oghuz Turk clan converted from Islam to Orthodox Christianity after settling in the Eastern Balkans (in Bulgaria) and were called Gagauz Turks. A large group of the Gagauz later left Bulgaria and settled in southern Bessarabia, along with a group of ethnic Bulgarians. There is a related ethnic group also called Gagavuz (or Gajal) living in the European part of northwestern Turkey.

wikipedia on Bulgars
Traditionally, historians have associated the Bulgars with the Huns, who migrated out of Central Asia. Anthropological data collected from medieval Bulgar necropolises from Dobrudja, Crimea and the Ukrainian steppe have shown that Bulgars were a Caucasoid people with a small Mongoloid component and practiced circular type artificial cranial deformation. This finding is consistent with a model in which the Turkic languages were gradually imposed in Central Asia and East European Plain on Caucasian (Scythian & Finno-Ugrian) peoples with relatively little genetic admixture, another possible example of a language shift through elite dominance. Ibn Fadlan, who visited Volga Bulgaria in the 10th century, describes the appearance of the Bulgars as "ailing" (pale) and "not ruddy" like the Rus' people.

wikipedia on Seljuks in Dobruja
Background
Seljuk Turks in Anatolia (most of modern Turkey) were defeated by the Mongols in the Battle of Kösedağ (1243). During the rest of the century, they were more or less puppets of the Mongols. In 1257, the Mongols divided Seljuk lands between two brothers, Izzettin Keykavus II and Kılıç Aslan IV. Moreover, İzzettin was forced to obey his younger brother. Although İzzettin tried to struggle, in 1262 he had to flee from Antalya, a port in Seljuk territory to Byzantine territory with a large partisan group.[1]
Settlement in Dobruja
Byzantine Emperor Michael VIII Palaiologos, who had just recaptured Constantinople (modern İstanbul) from the Latin Empire, was a relative of İzzettin. However, he had allied himself with the Mongols of Baghdad (who’ll soon be called Ilkhanids) and instead of supporting İzzettin, he kept İzzettin as a refuge and settled İzzettin's partisans to the area between Varna, now in Bulgaria and the estuary of the Danube (1262–1263), a country which later on was named as Dobruja (Turkish: Dobruca). After an unsuccessful revolt in Byzantine Empire, İzzettin fled to Crimea, which was under Golden Horde rule. But his followers stayed in the area allocated to them. Their new leader was Sarı Saltık Dede, whose tomb is in Babadag, Romania.[2]
Aftermath
In 1307, a part of Dobruja Turks under Ece Halil[3] returned to Anatolia. They settled in the northwest Anatolian beylik of Karesi, which became later a part of the Ottoman Empire.[2] The rest stayed in Dobruja. While keeping their language, they converted to Christianity. They maintained their political independence from Second Bulgarian Empire. Their small principality of Dobruja lived until the Ottoman conquest in 1417.[2] They are believed to be the anchestors of modern Gagauz people. The name Gagauz may be a reminiscence of the name Kaykavus.[4]

from a forum http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showth ... ost1107894
First of all, Gagauz people are not Turkic but Turkish because they were originally from Anatolia who migrated into Balkans after the Mongol army destroyed Seljuk empire. The indications of Anatolian Oghuz Turkish in their language easily recognizable even by amateur linguists.
Their history and Anatolian origin is well recorded and attested by several Byzantine chronicles. The son of Seljuk sultanate seek refuge to Constantinople after their state has been destroyed by the Mongol army and the Byzantine emperor accepted to provide a home to them if they accept to be converted as christians. They accepted and Byzantine emperor allowed them to settle around today`s Varna, Bulgaria. They created "Despotate of Gagauzia" in Varna, a vassal state to Byzantines and it continued to survive `till Ottoman empire`s advancements in Balkans.

Gagauzs are as Bulgarian as Azis the gypsy. Yes, most of Gagauz in Bulgaria has been assimilated during the last century but this doesn't make them Bulgarians at all.

Morski, tell me what "Asli Bulgar" means? You cant but i can because it`s a Turkish sentence. Actually they are right because they are clearly more Bulgar than you slavic speaking Bulgarians. At least they belong to a relative ethnos and they speak similar language with first Bulgars.

Quote Originally Posted by Zmey Gorynych
"They don't look turkic, they are orthodox and only a few speak the gagauz language, most speak russian as their native language. My opinion is that they were turkified (now russianized) bulgarians. As for the "gagauz" themselves - very confused people not even they know what they are."

You are wrong. Their Gagauz tongue contains archaic elements spoken by the very first Anatolian Turks 1000 years ago. Today`s Turkish people doesn't use these expressions but these are still exists in Gagauz speech. Even this is enough to prove their true origin.
Gagauz people themselves in Bulgaria, Greece or Moldova might be confused but this is because of centuries of oppressions and strict Russification. Trust me, if your ancestors would live through the same fate as poor Gagauz, you would be confused as them by now about your origin.
This is Gagauz song from Gagauz Yeri (within Moldova) and they proudly identify themselves as Oghuzes as they are: "Gagauzyam benim, benim Oğuz milletim". Gagauz people in Gagauz Yeri identifies themselves as Turkic without a doubt, their unofficial flag includes a Wolf head aswell.

[Xile]

Thanks for the in-depth analysis, guys. Now I'm a bit more confused than before. Doesn't this mean that Gagauzi are still White? My aunt and uncle who are pure Gagauzi have a few blonde and blue eyed kids, and their eldest son also has children with those traits. I still don't understand this. The Gagauzi in those photo's are actually a bit darker looking than most of my relatives. Anyway I look at it, the love I felt from God was real and when I sin less and follow scriptures more, the Holy Spirit shows me what I must do.

If I were nonwhite, would I be able to "sense" what I must do? God brought me here for a reason.

[Joe]

I thought to message you privately xile, but I wasn't sure what to do since it is such a long post. Once I read the paper I just kept going, which is in my nature. If you want me to edit the post, so that you can consider the information privately, I will.

Christ chooses us, we do not choose Christ. And none of us know our ancient ancestors. So I am not trying to condemn anyone because I know nothing about the slavs and bulgars (I don't know the difference between turkic or turkish either). I do not know if anyone is or is not White unless it is rather explicit/obvious.

[Xile]

I thought to message you privately xile, but I wasn't sure what to do since it is such a long post. Once I read the paper I just kept going, which is in my nature. If you want me to edit the post, so that you can consider the information privately, I will.

Christ chooses us, we do not choose Christ. And none of us know our ancient ancestors. So I am not trying to condemn anyone because I know nothing about the slavs and bulgars (I don't know the difference between turkic or turkish either). I do not know if anyone is or is not White unless it is rather explicit/obvious.

It's fine. It's no use hiding the truth, that is not in my nature. I was accepted on SF because they also looked at the evidence and couldn't get anything nonwhite from it, but one person there didn't believe that I was fully White (I did not show any photo's). I doubt that a simple mtDNA test would get me the results that I need, to know for sure. Gagauz history is rather shady, just as the Hmong people from China (Thailand?).

I can't prove that I am 100% White, just as I can't prove that there hasn't been some Mongoloid admixture in my family on my Ukrainian side. It's one of those things in life that I must learn to deal with. If Christ chooses us, then I have nothing to worry about because I wouldn't even be here had it not been for Him.

It was interesting how my curiosity about communism lead me to become a White Nationalist and then to Christian Identity. Obviously, if I really were mixed, then wouldn't it be odd how I perceive God in all things?

I don't think it's possible to ignore the night when I actually felt God's love for me. How could God love anything that is not His? If it is all just my delusion then I would be put off by CI and yet here I am.

“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 9 Or what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him! - Matthew 7:7-11 NKJV

If I am not of God, then that message is made false. Yet even now, I see it working in my every day life. Otherwise, the very reason why I am here on Earth would be under question. I remember my rebellious stage. Once I left it, I became a vessel for God's promise. So, will I simply be judged by the law? I don't think so, because the Word is in my heart. Living in sin is for those who reject the Creator; that is not who I am.