Alcohol

[Les]

Do any of you have to deal with this on a metro transit bus?
a negro acting really,REALLY loopy, and then eventually hitting on a white woman (who I can tell, did not want to be bothered),
I kept wondering if this nut was eyeballing me for a fight!
I think he does it on purpose, as when he knocked into a white man accidentally then was playing as "normal", and apologized immediately "sorry"... the entire busload of people (mostly white) I doubt were convinced. then..I realized...I am a hair a away from going to prison...and for nothing...as I bet most of my blood on that bus will rat me out...so sad...

You maybe wonder why some of us drink?
The old story.
To drown our sorrows.

[Kentucky]

You maybe wonder why some of us drink?
The old story.
To drown our sorrows.

I pray that my fellow Identity friends are not troubled, because all of this sorry state of affairs must come to pass.  How much of a Remnant will it take to bring glory?  I don't know.  The KJV says “All of these are the beginning of sorrows” Mt. 24:8, but many other translations render it “birth pains.”  What is being born?  I can tell you it aint born again judeo Christians! It is IMHO the truth revealed that the 'begotten from above,' the children of God, are awakening from their slumber, discovering for the first time in their life that they are God's chosen people, not jews, not a universalist church and not ape-like heathens.

Luke reports of two kinds of people in the latter days. Luke 21 tells us in verse 26 that there will be “Men fainting from fear and the expectation of the things which are coming upon the world; for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.” The powers of governments, of the jew world order, will be shaken. And yet some will be cynical. On the other hand, those who identify with their Kinsman Redeemer, the Savior who comes only for His chosen race Israel (Mt. 15:24) and to exterminate the serpentines (Mal. 4:3) will not be having heart attacks, but rather, “When all these things begin to happen, stand tall and raise your heads, for your salvation is approaching!" (Luke 21:28). I know this is hard for some people to visualize, but our ancient ancestors saw it and recorded it for our posterity. I hope this give you some hope and cheerfulness in a godless world of sorrows.

Mark

[Fenwick]

You maybe wonder why some of us drink?
The old story.
To drown our sorrows.

You sure don't have to explain the pain of daily living to CI people. And I do sympathize with those who turn to drink or drugs to numb the pain. But too much of it and it becomes a form of idolatry in itself, and we struggle to live the way God wants us to.

There is a Skrewdriver song about it:

[wmfinck]

The argument is not really drunkenness, it is who is going to decide where you draw the line between moderation and drunkenness. And, of course, that is left up to the individual, not God....

It is clear in Scripture, that God Himself had left it up to the individual. Therefore one individual has no right to impose his own laws on other individuals whom God left it up to. That is referred to as Pharisaism, or Tyranny. Is that condonable because someone thinks it may "save lives"? Wow, what a slippery slope, that man thinks that he should make laws to "save lives".

The Fall of Adam and Eve was due to the fact that they could not remove from their own mind any and all thoughts of indulging in that forbidden fruit (it really doesn't matter whether it was sex or an apple or whatever); they crossed the line and spoiled their glorified bodies. The curse has been with us ever since. I don't want to pop your bubble, but the principle of removing or banning or destroying the idols of the heart, which is the ultimate source of sin, is not without precedence in the Bible....

Not to touch of that certain tree was a commandment of God's law. Not to commit idolatry was a commandment of God's law. But if you are equating wine or beer with the "forbidden fruit" and "idols of the heart", but that equation is not made in God's law!

Honestly, what was the higher good of Prohibition? Was it not saving lives? Or were these Christians just party poopers?

This same excuse has been used to regulate all sorts of things in Society which God's law does not regulate, and which continually burdens many of our people in many ways.

Prohibition actually cost many lives, destroyed many legitimate businesses, put the greater part of the liquor, beer and wine industries into the hands of the Jews, and people who really wanted to drink still did. Prohibition also helped to create the police state that we live in today, as well as the general mentality that supports it.

Prohibition also put a stop to cottage-industry alcohol fuel production, and made all of America's family farms dependent on Rockefeller gasoline.

Perhaps I am biased, my family's own brewery business was closed with Prohibition. They came from Germany as coopers in 1836, and opened a brewery in 1872. But all of that was long before I or my father were born.

And [Jesus] said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.

I do not smoke marijuana, but I understand that it is evil to ban anything that God makes to grow out of His green earth. That would also include poppy and other things which may potentially be abused.

It is also evil to ban alcohol, as God created the circumstances by which it naturally occurs. Is it not plainly seen that grapes were made to ferment when crushed and stored in jars? If that is not the case, why did God place yeasts in their skins?

If you like statistics, I think during that era, you will see a decrease in alcohol-related deaths, not to mention the misery and tragedies that accompanied a wet society, which the nation reverted to after repeal....

According to a government historian friendly to Prohibition: "Rates of death diagnosed as caused by liver cirrhosis (15 per 100000 total population) and chronic alcoholism (10 per 100000 adult population) were high during the early years of the 20th century." Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1470475/

The couple of hundred people dying every year from these things, probably found a different way to kill themselves after alcohol was prohibited.

Taking the drug away does not solve the problesm which accompany a lack of self-control and personal responsibility.

One last thing, as I said earlier, I'm not bashing any of my friends in this forum who indulge in recreational drinking and know how much is too much. I am simply stating truths as I understand them for myself and for the edification of one and all; one is free to take it or leave it. But, please don't take it personally. It's just a subject that needs discussion.

I hope not, LOL, I drank one bottle of Hofbräuhaus Oktoberfest during each of my last two podcasts, including last night's podcast on Feminism. Allowing women to vote was what tipped the scales in favor of the Prohibitionists.

If there is no alcohol (booze), then there is no lives destroyed from it.

If there are no oceans, nobody will drown trying to swim. If there are no heights, nobody will fall to their deaths. Maybe we should join the flat earth society!

[wmfinck]

Why did Yahweh accept strong drink offerings,

From my understanding of Numbers 28:7, it was the best of the best liquors (perhaps figs or some other fruit) and not wine of the grape; and according to Exodus 30:9 drink offerings were not to be poured upon an altar of incense (no doubt it would douse the ember), but the drink offering could be poured on the lamb, the altar of burnt sacrifice. “A fourth of hin” in my margin note says that was about 6 quarts, which must have been a sizable quantity of the good stuff. Perhaps God thought it better that they pour it on the lamb than pouring it down their throats.

and why was alcohol not barred in the Law?

Probably because it would have conflicted with medicinal purposes for the elderly sick and as an anesthetic for those about to die (Prov. 31:6-7). Although I've seen some with hangovers who look like their dying lol. Was “barred” a pun?

Mark, there are also several mentions in the Scripture of wine offerings as well as strong drink offerings. Yahweh insisted on having both in His law, including a wine offering with the Passover. The word for wine refers to the same stuff that Noah had gotten drunk on.

As an aside, oddly the word for hin was not translated in the Greek of the Septuagint, but only transliterated (the Hebrew word was written in Greek letters). To me this indicates that by the Hellenistic period, the Judaeans were not certain of what value a hin was.

and why was alcohol not barred in the Law?

Probably because it would have conflicted with medicinal purposes for the elderly sick and as an anesthetic for those about to die (Prov. 31:6-7). Although I've seen some with hangovers who look like their dying lol. Was “barred” a pun?
Mark

It is only conjectural to say this. There are many clearly non-medicinal uses of wine and strong drink in Scripture which are portrayed positively.

In fact, here is one proof that we will have wine in the Kingdom of God:

18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. 19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth.

That wine was also the same stuff that Noah got drunk on.

Christ is now our Melchizedek priest.

17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: 18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

None of this, of course, makes any excuse for Noah's own lack of self-control.

[wmfinck]

All things being held constant, sure. The reality is that much has changed since the Law was given. Alcohol is much more readily available to people now. I won't pretend to know exactly the situation then, but I don't think anyone could have gotten up, walked to the store and blown their paycheck on alcohol.

Actually, access to alcohol probably has a lot more to do with environment than economics. On a farm or in some other rural setting, it would be easy to have constant access to alcohol, which would not require a paycheck. All you need are some grapes and a barrel.

We should be able to distinguish the concepts of alcohol consumption and alcohol abuse. Drinking wine or beer does not lead to alcoholism any more than owning a gun leads to murder.

I am certain that nobody here would ever promote alcohol abuse.

But alcohol consumption is something which God Himself did not deny, and even created the circumstances for it as a natural part of His creation.

So we should teach moderation and self-control, and not prohibitionism and state control.

[Nayto]

All things being held constant, sure. The reality is that much has changed since the Law was given. Alcohol is much more readily available to people now. I won't pretend to know exactly the situation then, but I don't think anyone could have gotten up, walked to the store and blown their paycheck on alcohol.

Actually, access to alcohol probably has a lot more to do with environment than economics. On a farm or in some other rural setting, it would be easy to have constant access to alcohol, which would not require a paycheck. All you need are some grapes and a barrel.

We should be able to distinguish the concepts of alcohol consumption and alcohol abuse. Drinking wine or beer does not lead to alcoholism any more than owning a gun leads to murder.

I am certain that nobody here would ever promote alcohol abuse.

But alcohol consumption is something which God Himself did not deny, and even created the circumstances for it as a natural part of His creation.

So we should teach moderation and self-control, and not prohibitionism and state control.

Well, taking one's crop and making some alcohol is fine, but blowing one's livelihood and health on alcohol is another thing. I grew up with two alcoholics and maybe I'm more sensitive to its affects on the lives of others both financially and emotionally. Like Hitler noted in Mein Kampf, men would regularly neglect their families to go and drink on payday. Many are overweight and morbidly obese thanks in no small part to constant drinking of beer.

As you probably know, I enjoy alcohol as well. Even tonight my wife and I will have some red wine with our dinner. My beer consumption definitely goes up in this heat too, LOL! I assume that no one is advocating abuse as well. I just think it's worth it to play the advocate of prohibition and see what comes out of it. I'd like everyone who has mastered their consumption to consider what it does to the lives of those who haven't.

If we advocate self control, then what are the protocols for dealing with drunkards? If Paul said drunkards are not allowed into the Kingdom of God, doesn't that at the very least have implications on the company we ought to keep? To me that means we need to shun drunkards in the same way we might shun thieves, murderers, race mixers, etc.

I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

[wmfinck]

I grew up with two alcoholics and maybe I'm more sensitive to its affects on the lives of others both financially and emotionally.

I have already explained that my family owned a brewery for fifty years, right up to the time of Prohibition.

What I did not yet explain, was that my father was an alcoholic. He awoke each morning and went to the bar before work. After work, he often came home some time after the bar closed. Because of the situation caused by that, by the time I was 16 we lost our family home and I was no longer able to attend the high school that I had attended for two years. Life for us took a sharp turn downwards.

My father's father was also an alcoholic. And his father was an alcoholic! I have heard rumors that my father's mother was an alcoholic as well!

My father reformed in his mid-50's, amazingly. So the last 20 years of his life he was a much better man to deal with, and a much better father. He always swore that his alcoholism and that of his fathers' was some sort of karma because our family had a brewery, that they reaped what they sowed.

I thought that was just his excuse for his own lack of self-control. When he stopped drinking, it was because he had made up his own mind to stop drinking - thirty years too late but he nevertheless was able to do it.

If we advocate self control, then what are the protocols for dealing with drunkards? If Paul said drunkards are not allowed into the Kingdom of God, doesn't that at the very least have implications on the company we ought to keep? To me that means we need to shun drunkards in the same way we might shun thieves, murderers, race mixers, etc.

Of course, drunkards are of no use to us at all, and they should be excluded from communion until they repent, like all other sinners. They burden the community unnecessarily with their vice.

But we do not bring back Prohibition simply because some men refuse to control themselves. We all have challenges in life. We all have weaknesses. Where does the statist/pharisaical mentality end?

I drink coffee as well as beer. About 3 12-ounce cups of strong coffee each morning. Fortunately, I have no discernible health problems. But if I developed hypertension or some other illness, would my coffee-drinking not become a burden to my community? So should coffee be banned as well?

Headline, August, 2014, a high school football player (evidently a nigger) in Georgia dies drinking too much water:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/georgia-teen-dies-from-drinking-too-much-water-gatorade/

Headline October 2015: A middle-aged woman hiking in the grand Canyon dies after drinking too much water:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3260684/The-hiker-died-drinking-water-Excess-fluid-lack-food-caused-brain-fatally-swell.html

This is a freaking epidemic! We have to ban water!

LOL

[EzraLB]

This is a freaking epidemic! We have to ban water!

I guess we also need to add kale to the list of foods that become toxic when consumed immoderately:

http://commonhealth.wbur.org/2014/01/th ... -around-it

Jews love to come up with rules and regulations on virtually every aspect of our lives. They cling to these rituals of Statist and Pharisaical control because it gives them power and authority over others.

Should we stop insisting that all of Israel shall be saved because some Israelite might take that the wrong way, thinking it gives him a license to sin? Where does this mentality end?

[TR]

I have always read that alcohol can be used therapeutically to fight bacteria and viruses. Drinking it can kill bacteria and viruses in the blood. Probably things more like vodka, everclear, or moonshine. I know doctors use rubbing alcohol to kill bacteria before injections. In the old cowboy movies when someone was shot, they drank whiskey and poured it on the wound. I figured that was somewhat based on fact, due to antibacterial properties. I think Paul told Timothy to drink wine for his stomach.