Modesty

[Catherine]

Heather,

Yes, I feel hostile every single time I go on FB just having to see what they all stand for. They don't approve of what I stand for and I don't approve of what they stand for. My family tried to get me to do FB for a decade before I'd even consider. After a little over a year, I'm done with them. I deleted my FB yesterday and made another one under an incognito name and will have NO friends on it. It's easy to keep up with the news and other things I'm interested in. This way I can see what I want and not see what I don't want. My family is either Catholic, Morman, or crazy Pentecostals cheering for Israel. Yes, it's the hostility that grows in me every time I see their views.

A few days ago my cousin posted a post that said something like this:

Before FB I didn't know my family like I thought I did. I had no idea they would approve or disapprove of so much that went against what I thought or believed. Then she went on to say all the different ways she had come to see her friends and family differently. I agree, I'm glad I had that 15 month experience of FB because I can see how rigid in they are in areas that I think is totally wrong.

I can't give my views on race or marrying outside of our race without great backlash due to all the Asians and Mexicans in my family now. If I try to talk about the way America is going they say it's because we are cursed for not supporting Israel more. There's not a single family member who I can talk to about all this race crap except my son who is in and out of ZOG prisons for profit. He used to say things to me about me being a racist, UNTIL he did jail time with blacks and Mexicans. Now, he hates their guts. If that's what it took to make him open his eyes then I believe that is what God allowed to wake him up. My daughter has rainbow filth all over her facebook and cheers Bruce Jenner on. Grrr...

Sometimes I ask God, WHY am I even here? I can't stand hardly anyone in my family anymore.

[worms]

I know the feeling. I have tried several times talking to family members about Christianity and the great Adolf Hitler for example and they are to brainwashed to think differently from the way they have been programmed , even after showing them proof they can't even conceive the idea that Hitler was fighting against the NWO (Jews).

It's frustrating to say the least, that's why I regularly read this forum. It was also refreshing to watch a Louis Theorox documentary on South Africa the other week when a Boer woman said that she believed that White people were Gods chosen people. Things like that make me feel less alone. It must be said that I barely post here because I feel I am not qualified to discuss biblical theory yet. I need to study and read all I can first. Then I will start posting.

Anyway I hope you guys are all well.

[ElleJay]

I am so in agreement with this discussion. I have many granddaughters and grandsons. In one family, the children ... boys and girls ... do swim ... but in apparrel that covers them pretty much shouder/arms to toe. Beneath the tops for the older girls, you will find support ... and nothing is see through ... nothing is clingy or tight. Sometimes they make their own swimwear ... and they are colorful and cute. The boys always have to wear T-shirts ... not thin ones either ... and modest shorts (what we called bermuda length).

Then ... there is one family where the children are on swim teams ... and the teams are all ages of children. I have had discussions with my daughter of the dangers ... not just in wearing such scanty suits ... but with the age range, young boys and girls get a very visual picture of changes from puberty on up. Think of a young boy of 10 walking by the teenage 15-year old girl ... and where his eyes hit! ... Think of the five-year old girl ... and that 16 year-old boy walking by at the pool ... and where her eyes hit.

Speaking of modesty ... I started high school in 1960. Girls were required to take gym ... which meant changing clothes in the locker room with other girls. That was bad enough for a very modest 13-year old, but it was excrutiatingly painful to have to shower with all of these girls. If you did not shower, your grade would be lowered. For swimming ... which we had to do every year ... the suits were school issues ... very thin material ... with absolutely no support ... nothing between you and the suit. Granted, boys were not in the pool at the same time ... but there was a fence ... a chain-link fence ... and they did ogle us.

If I had the same perspective as I do now, I would have taken the lowered grade ... not changed with the girls ... not showered at all. It still bothers me today. What I realize now is that it was all part of breaking us down ... to change the moral structure of America.

One other note about swim teams ... today there is the problem of homosexuality ... everywhere ... and swim teams are not exempt. With the skimpiness of the swim wear, and all the ages together ... you can imagine all sorts of trouble the children are getting into ... willingly ... unwillingly ... and coercively. (I was told not too many years ago that two of our Gym teachers were lesbians. There was something about them ... and their looks ... that bothered me ... but I did not know about such things back then.)

Elle

[Fenwick]

I don't know if it's a cultural difference with Europe, but I can't really relate to a lot of the stuff in this thread. I'm all for modesty in public, especially in an era when gross indecency coincides with gross obesity.

But I would never have considered swimming to be one of those activities with an immodest context. Generations of old fashioned catholics and a the scattering of anglicans in my family never saw swimming as an activity where you were expected to go fully clothed. Perhaps swimming costumes were fuller than bikinis when I was little, but they were not neck to ankles either. Boys generally wore the same long shorts then as they do now.


Swimming just wasn't considered a sexual environment, where 90% of your body is underwater, and as a child there was nothing sexual in our minds when we had mixed swimming lessons in school or in family events outside it. For sports you got changed right there in the classroom with everybody else.


I do wonder to what extent this is a result of cultures that developed in multiracial societies. From what I've read, colonial Rhodesians drummed it into their children never to undress where a nigger might be present. Perhaps a similar rationale exists in America? From growing up in a region that had very few foreigners about (certainly none that ever went near water) this was never considered a problem, and a lot of these people were quite traditionalist.

By all means I can understand not wanting pictures posted online for all and sundry to see, and a more modest bathing suit than is currently the fashion. But from a European perspective, worrying about the bathing modesty of very young children seems a very alien concept.

[EzraLB]

Fenwick,
I understand that Europeans are far more casual about public bathing than Americans traditionally seem to be, but Europe has a much longer history of cultural decadence than America. The Jews have been degrading public standards for a much longer time.

Take, for example, the bikini, which came out of France, and the two-piece version, called the "Atome" was invented by a Jew, Jacques Heim.

From what I understand, it was the East German communists that started the first nude beaches in Germany, and it was only later that the fad moved west.

I've spent enough time in Europe to have observed that the people are far more influenced by cultural marxism than the average American is. The American novelist, Henry James, wrote extensively about the conflict between the old decadent Europeans and the young idealistic Americans over 100 years ago, and that conflict still remains today.

[wmfinck]

Fenwick,

Hardly anyone who goes to the beach actually swims. Rather, it is more of a place to party, ogle and be ogled.

Ezra,

You are right about the decadence of Europe and the relaxed standards for public decency there being far earlier than they were here. But I am not sure that can be said of all of Europe, or only certain more "progressive" nations.

Likewise the difference between the Jersey Shore, the Gulf Coast, and many of the rural places far inland where people would not think of running around nearly nude.

And while the "bikini" is indeed European, the Jew did not invent it. Rather, he only stole it from Roman antiquity and modernized the fabrics a bit.


Mosaïque des bikinis, Piazza Armerina [Public domain], by from Le Musée absolu, Phaidon, 10-2012, from Wikimedia Commons

[wmfinck]

1928 beach pictures of some of my Finck cousins. I have others but cannot find them at the moment.

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[brucebohn]

Fenwick,

Hardly anyone who goes to the beach actually swims. Rather, it is more of a place to party, ogle and be ogled.

Ezra,

You are right about the decadence of Europe and the relaxed standards for public decency there being far earlier than they were here. But I am not sure that can be said of all of Europe, or only certain more "progressive" nations.

Likewise the difference between the Jersey Shore, the Gulf Coast, and many of the rural places far inland where people would not think of running around nearly nude.

And while the "bikini" is indeed European, the Jew did not invent it. Rather, he only stole it from Roman antiquity and modernized the fabrics a bit.


Mosaïque des bikinis, Piazza Armerina [Public domain], by from Le Musée absolu, Phaidon, 10-2012, from Wikimedia Commons

I read Ellejay and Fenwick's post late last evening and decided to make
a comment this morning. Thank you Ezra, Bill, for your sentiments / observations
as to European decadence. My thoughts were certainly along the same line....

[Fenwick]

I'm not convinced it's an issue of decadence, more of innocence. People just don't have this hyper-aware, hyper-sexualised attitude to bathing in public. A child going swimming is just that, and nobody looks for any more sinister connotation.

Bill's pictures of his family are about on the same level as what we always wore to the beach (the man's shirt would have been ditched for the swimming pool though).

My experience of beaches has been as family places, where people in shorts and t-shirts go to play in the sand and swim in the sea. The same is true of public swimming baths here. I don't have any experience of this idea that they're a kind of slutty, sandy nightclub.

It's probably a lot worse in the holiday locations on the Mediterranean that are known for their legions of drunken revellers, but at home, nobody was ever doing much partying or ogling on the pebbly beaches of Fleetwood or Mablethorpe when I was there. It would have been too cold to undress much anyway!

[brucebohn]

The Semi annual "European beach Boner"....Yes, I would say that it
probably is worse at the holiday locations................

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