Soul vs Spirit Re: Death

[Joe]

That is a funny analogy Lang. God bless you.

@marc4liberty
I don't know which translation that would be, I have many Bibles on esword and can't find it. It certainly isn't in many versions from the Septuagint, the KJV or YLT.

Luk 24:36 and as they are speaking these things, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith to them, `Peace--to you;'
Luk 24:37 and being amazed, and becoming affrighted, they were thinking themselves to see a spirit.
Luk 24:38 And he said to them, `Why are ye troubled? and wherefore do reasonings come up in your hearts?
Luk 24:39 see my hands and my feet, that I am he; handle me and see, because a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me having.'
Luk 24:40 And having said this, he shewed to them the hands and the feet,
Luk 24:41 and while they are not believing from the joy, and wondering, he said to them, `Have ye anything here to eat?'
Luk 24:42 and they gave to him part of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb,
Luk 24:43 and having taken, he did eat before them,

Joh 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

[brucebohn]

Lang,

For now, I will stick to the biblestudysite reference. I don't recall reading any Biblical scripture that says the soul (your personal essence) turns to dust just like your physical body. I know that when your physical body dies, your spirit returns to God which gave it (Eccl. 12:7) I think the soul stays with the spiritual body.

Can you point out any Biblical scripture that identifies any spiritual being as being in feminine form? I think all persons (male and female) retain a spiritual body in a male form when the physical body dies. Even all the angels that are identified in the Bible are in male form. There is no need for a feminine form in a spiritual body because there will be no physical reproduction. Read Matt. 22:23-33; Mark 12:18-27 and Luke 20:27-38

marc4liberty

Then lifted I up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there came forth two women, and the wind was in their wings; now they had wings like the wings of a stork; and they lifted up the ephah between earth and heaven.
10, Then said I to the angel that talked with me, Whither do these bear the ephah?

ZEC: 5-9

[marc4liberty]

@brucebon, I don't have a good explanation for this one exception. It contradicts other Biblical references I previously provided. He didn't have any direct contact with these beings so perhaps they were only visions that had no basis in reality. They are referred to as women rather that angels even though the vision is that they have wings.

[Kentucky]

I don't recall reading any Biblical scripture that says the soul (your personal essence) turns to dust just like your physical body. I know that when your physical body dies, your spirit returns to God which gave it (Eccl. 12:7) I think the soul stays with the spiritual body.

You're making the presumption that spirit is distinguished in relationship to matter like the physical body. God did not breath into the nostrils (body) of Adam a spiritual body, but rather just spirit. You're interjecting a body into another body. If you superimpose your soul/personality/consciousness into a spiritual body, then your thoughts have not died; one simply changes form, nullifying the idea of cessation of life i.e. death. Without the physical body, there is no soul or personality. The soul is not the same thing as spirit, in that the latter returns to God. Death is described thusly in Psalms 146:4, "His breath [spirit] goeth forth, he returneth to the earth, in that very day his thoughts [soul] perish." It's not the life giving force that animates man to life, called spirit, that perishes, but rather our consciousness to think, which develops a person's character i.e. soul. Our soul is designer-specific, identifying us as an individual. The spirit (one size fits all) belongs to God, identifying the giver of life. If we mix soul and spirit, we have an ownership problem. "Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit in you? Which you have from Yahweh, and you are not your own? Indeed you have been purchased for a price; so then you honor Yahweh in your body" I Cor. 6:19-20 CNT. Perhaps this was connected to the serpent's lie that "Ye shall be as gods" thinking that our soul and spirit belongs to us, that it's our property lol.

Can you point out any Biblical scripture that identifies any spiritual being as being in feminine form? I think all persons (male and female) retain a spiritual body in a male form when the physical body dies. Even all the angels that are identified in the Bible are in male form. There is no need for a feminine form in a spiritual body because there will be no physical reproduction. Read Matt. 22:23-33; Mark 12:18-27 and Luke 20:27-38

You're making the presumption that we are the same as angels i.e. spirit beings. Even Christ was not a spirit being or angel. "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that He by the grace of God should taste death for every man" Heb. 2:9. Can you point out any Scripture where an angel has died? In all 3 passages that you cite, there is no confirmation that females cease to exist, but rather that marriage is no longer an institution per se. The adversaries of Christ were playing head games and He saw through their sophistry, saying, "Ye do err, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God" Mt. 22:29. For all we know, there just may be something far beyond marriage that bonds a man and woman. It doesn't really say "so that no longer are they two, but one flesh. Therefore that which Yahweh has yoked together man must not separate!... until after the resurrection.” Adam and Eve were together before the Fall in their glorified bodies and there was no mention of them being married. Perhaps in the Kingdom, it will be similar to the circumstances in Paradise. We'll just have to wait and see.

Mark

[Lang]

n all 3 passages that you cite, there is no confirmation that females cease to exist, but rather that marriage is no longer an institution per se.

As I undestand, the marriage does not happens when the preacher speaks the words and they put the ring in each other's hands. But the marriage happens when a man "make love" to a woman, in that very moment he is taking her as his wife. Keeping this in mind, do you think that, as I had said, the abolishing of the marriage basically means that theres no sex in the Kingdom, by this way avoiding the sin, but a husband and wife would continue being a couple, but only connected by the "spiritual" bonds, or whatever it is?

[marc4liberty]

@Kentucky, Please read Matt. 10:28. And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul, but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

I think this clearly indicates that the soul is a separated from the physical body at physical death. Only God can destroy the soul in the Lake of Fire. I think it also clearly indicates that the soul stays with the spiritual body at physical death and does not turn to dust with the physical body.

marc4liberty

[Kentucky]

@Kentucky, Please read Matt. 10:28. And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul, but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

You can put a bullet in my head and I'll be dead as a doornail, but how do you shoot my personality, my character or the legacy of one's life? You can't. Only God has the prerogative to completely eradicate who a person is or was.

I think this clearly indicates that the soul is a separated from the physical body at physical death. Only God can destroy the soul in the Lake of Fire. I think it also clearly indicates that the soul stays with the spiritual body at physical death and does not turn to dust with the physical body.

You need to rethink who the 'lake of fire' is reserved for. Does your soul have the potential to be destroyed in the 'lake of fire'? I can find several Scriptures that indicate that "the soul shall perish." Mt. 10:28 says nothing about the soul winding up in a spiritual body.

Mark

[Joe]

@marc4liberty
When I ask you to explain how God could create a mongrel without breaking His Own Law, an answer is not forthcoming, no answer is given.

When I ask you to provide the translation which contradicts my passage from Job, you just ignore it. BTW I think Job would know more about Scripture than you, contrary to your assertion. Christ was resurrected into a physical glorified body.

When I show you that Genesis 5, which undoubtedly speaks of the White race, says Adam was created not formed, again you arrogantly dismiss the criticism.

When I provide a link from Emahiser's site, you say, simply, that you do not agree with Clifton or Bill without explaining why or providing a plausible rebuttal.

Now you have also posted material that supports the trinity and that the 'spirit is a container for the soul', that is 'anti-racist/anti-white' ...when I highlight this, just like a PR rep, you ignore the difficult questions and keep pushing the message.

[marc4liberty]

@Joe,
I have never claimed to be a Biblical scholar. I rely on references from Biblical scholars. In most of my posts, I have provided links to those references.

For example, when I posted about God creating all the races, I provided the link to http :// w ww biblestu dysite.com/creatio n.h tm I find this account believable.

When you quoted Job, I responded that I had learned from others the following:

quote="marc4liberty"]@Joe, Job was ignorant of the nature of eternal salvation. He had the spiritual knowledge that God would redeem him after he died, but he did not know what form that would be. I have read other translations that "in my flesh" is actually "out of my flesh." Job knew his flesh body would decay. He knew he would see God, but he did not know he would be in a spiritual form.[/quote]

I did not dispute that Christ was resurrected into a physical glorified body. That does not mean that everyone will be resurrected in the same way. For example, as I recall, Enoch was taken by God without a physical death.

I think the link provided above also covers the issue of created and formed. That scholar does not think there is any contradiction with Genesis 5. I think he is saying that God both created mankind and also formed a specific man, Adam, from whom Yahshua would be a descendant. I agree that the generations of Adam in Genesis 5 is speaking of the white race.

I reviewed my responses. I think I tried to provide an explanation and/or rebuttal in almost all cases. I am not a skilled debater, so I apologize for not meeting your standards. I think I was up front when I said that I am not sure about some of the things I said or referenced.

I am a neophyte Christian and trying to learn as much as I can. So far, I have found various websites that seem to provide views that make sense to me. One of those sites is Christogena.org. In the future, I will try to do better in documenting what I post. Thank you for your patience and understanding.

[Lang]

Enoch was taken by God without a physical death.

If you have time, I totally advise you to read this book: http://sheldonemrylibrary.com/Thou%20Shalt%20Surely%20Die.pdf

Its one of my favorite books, written by a blessed man regarding the subject of death according to the Bible. I had questions about Elijah and Enoch supposed rapture, and the chariot of fire thing, but after reading this book I totally understood the subject and its very clear in my mind now. Most of our doubts and problems interpreting the Scriptures happens because of our judeo-chuchianity historic and dogmas.