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Soul vs Spirit Re: Death

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Soul vs Spirit Re: Death

Postby Joe » Sun Nov 17, 2013 4:11 am

I have heard a few opinions in this. I just want to hear from the community what their understanding from Scripture is regarding the question; Does the personality of a person die, being the soul?

...if their memory survives, than their personality must also survive.
In their glorified bodies I think that their corrupted parts, their sins would fall-away (be burned-up)...revealing their true-nature as Yahweh made them.

I will include some Bible passages to initiate thought.
(The last one about fire is important)

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Ecclesiastes 12:7
And the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.


1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;


John 5:28-29
Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
...and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
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Re: Soul vs Spirit Re: Death

Postby marc4liberty » Sun Nov 17, 2013 2:05 pm

Joe,

I have heard a few opinions in this. I just want to hear from the community what their understanding from Scripture is regarding the question; Does the personality of a person die, being the soul?


So far, I have accepted this explanation as making the most sense to me:

htt p://w ww.bibles tud ysite .c om/ans wers26 .htm #7

I look forward to knowing what you and others think of this.

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Re: Soul vs Spirit Re: Death

Postby Lang » Sun Nov 17, 2013 6:00 pm

Quoting Mark Downey:

"Soul is simply one's personality or character; animals have a soul, but they don't have spirit. Spirit is what animated Adam to life physically, but it also operates on other levels for us to develop a relationship with our Creator, that the rest of the animal kingdom does not enjoy".

"We are not the way, the life and the truth, Christ is. The Spirit of God gives life, not our personality or soul. There is no need for the soul to return to anything other than dust like the physical body. Then it is only a matter of time before one is resurrected from the grave".

"(...) it speaks of going from mortality to immortality etc. This was the condition of Adam before the Fall. Adam was not a spirit being, that's what angels are. The "change" is speaking of glorification, our glorified bodies. "Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby He is able even to subdue all things unto Himself"
Phil. 3:21.

I believe that our memories and therefore our soul will come back with us as part of the ressurection. You can't really separate your memories, character, etc, from yourself.

That thing about only male bodies in the Kingdom is a thing I'll never agree with, no matter what. I bet everything that we will have females in the Kingdom.
"Give a hammer to a white, and he will build civilization;
Give a hammer to an asian, and he will build other hammers;
Give a hammer to an arab, and he will kill his wife;
Give a hammer to a nigger, and he will kill whites;
Give a hammer to a jew, and he will sell it to niggers.
"

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Re: Soul vs Spirit Re: Death

Postby marc4liberty » Sun Nov 17, 2013 7:35 pm

Lang,

For now, I will stick to the biblestudysite reference. I don't recall reading any Biblical scripture that says the soul (your personal essence) turns to dust just like your physical body. I know that when your physical body dies, your spirit returns to God which gave it (Eccl. 12:7) I think the soul stays with the spiritual body.

Can you point out any Biblical scripture that identifies any spiritual being as being in feminine form? I think all persons (male and female) retain a spiritual body in a male form when the physical body dies. Even all the angels that are identified in the Bible are in male form. There is no need for a feminine form in a spiritual body because there will be no physical reproduction. Read Matt. 22:23-33; Mark 12:18-27 and Luke 20:27-38

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Re: Soul vs Spirit Re: Death

Postby Lang » Sun Nov 17, 2013 9:37 pm

I think all persons (male and female) retain a spiritual body in a male form when the physical body dies.


We do not retain it. Your body will be glorified after ressurection. Its a gift we are going to receive, we did not receive it yet. Also, I don't believe it is a spiritual body, just a glorifyied body.

Even all the angels that are identified in the Bible are in male form.


If I tell you a story about cars and theres only Ford cars in my story, it does not means that Volkswagen cars dont exist. In the same way, the fact that the Bible never spoke of a female angel does not means that they don't exist.

I don't recall reading any Biblical scripture that says the soul (your personal essence) turns to dust just like your physical body.


You can read it between the lines. Everything has a soul, even dogs and cats, every animal, beast and man. However, animals and beasts are not going to the Kingdom and their souls certainly will not walk in the streets in an "invisible spiritual realm". They have no place in the ressurection or in the Kingdom, they just die. Therefore, all these souls are going to die together with their bodies. What makes you peculiar and different from them? The Spirit, which is expessed through your body (thats why adamites are different than other races). If the Spirit is the only thing that makes you different, then thats the only thing that can't die.

There is no need for a feminine form in a spiritual body because there will be no physical reproduction.


I don't believe in spiritual bodies. I believe in receiving a gloryfied earthly body and the Spirit returning to it. We just can't be all spiritual, we are earthly beings. The inferior races can't stop being inferior and ascend to our level, becoming superior. But we, who are superiors, we can become inferiors if we want, through race-mixing. In the same way, God came to the earth in a earthly body, but we can't ascend to his level and become a spiritual being. Also, the fact that we are going to live in an earthly Kingdom suggests that we are going to be normal and earthyl as well, except for diseases, sins, etc. Just like we are probably going to have a pretty normal life of work, not a pink park with waterfalls everywhere and a big rainbow in the sky like judeo-churchianity believes.

For me the feminine form is absolutely necessary. Imagine you meeting your wife in a male body? It's an abomination. I agree that possibly we won't have sex anymore, but it does not dismiss the female form. I strongly believe that we are going to be just as we are now but with a 100% healthy body and mind (so I won't get tall in any time in the future, LOL).
"Give a hammer to a white, and he will build civilization;
Give a hammer to an asian, and he will build other hammers;
Give a hammer to an arab, and he will kill his wife;
Give a hammer to a nigger, and he will kill whites;
Give a hammer to a jew, and he will sell it to niggers.
"

J.M.
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Re: Soul vs Spirit Re: Death

Postby Joe » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:10 am

@Lang, that is the quote I was thinking of, from Mark Downey, I just couldn't remember where it came from at the time.

Now your explanation with it, that once we are resurrected, our bodies glorified ...well I think our personalities will be glorified too. We will forget our sins, and become an image of His Will. I am sure someone thinks 'no, your soul is lost, only your body is resurrected' but what is a body without a soul, the soul is part of the body. If only our body then why learn anything, why go through all this... only to be lost...

The female/male argument is too controversial, lol. You know, having the female made from Adam means that she is a part of him, an extension of him ...many seem to think that women are without Spirit or are not part of the Promise.


From marc4liberty's site (no comment):
God is similar to us, or rather we are similar to Him: in that He has three parts as well. But He is God and He is more than we.


...a spiritual body, which is the container of your soul in the spiritual realm
Last edited by Joe on Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
...and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
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Re: Soul vs Spirit Re: Death

Postby marc4liberty » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:17 am

@Lang, What you say may be true at the Second Advent and during the millennium (1,000 years) of Yahshua's rule on earth. However, I think everyone who makes it through Judgement Day will be resurrected in spiritual bodies and remain so for eternity.
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Re: Soul vs Spirit Re: Death

Postby Joe » Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:41 am

Job 19:26 And though after my skin, wormes destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God
...and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
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Re: Soul vs Spirit Re: Death

Postby marc4liberty » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:30 am

@Joe, Job was ignorant of the nature of eternal salvation. He had the spiritual knowledge that God would redeem him after he died, but he did not know what form that would be. I have read other translations that "in my flesh" is actually "out of my flesh." Job knew his flesh body would decay. He knew he would see God, but he did not know he would be in a spiritual form.
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Re: Soul vs Spirit Re: Death

Postby Lang » Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:34 am

Now your explanation with it, that once we are resurrected, our bodies glorified ...well I think our personalities will be glorified too. We will forget our sins, and become an image of His Will. I am sure someone thinks 'no, your soul is lost, only your body is resurrected' but what is a body without a soul, the soul is part of the body. If only our body then why learn anything, why go through all this... only to be lost...


As I said, the soul is part of the ressurection. Just liike our bodies are going to be ressurected and glorified, our souls will be ressurected and gloryfied too, of course.

The female/male argument is too controversial, lol. You know, having the female made from Adam means that she is a part of him, an extension of him ...many seem to think that women are without Spirit or are not part of the Promise.


I don't see why simply kill a part of the creation, why delete the part taken from Adam. That would be the same as killing Eve. Also, when your soul is ressurected, and you recover your memories, imagine you going to hug your wife after so many time sleeping, and you find a man? Would you walk hand in hand with "her"? I think its an abomination and would contradict the Scriptures. And to stark thinking too much spiritual and in an "ethereal" point of view is going churchianity in my opinion. I can't say if theres a female angel or not, but it's a very real possibility that theres not, its not a certain, but its a real possibility. But they are angels, so the all male form could fit to the angels, but definetely not for us, we are just different beings.
"Give a hammer to a white, and he will build civilization;
Give a hammer to an asian, and he will build other hammers;
Give a hammer to an arab, and he will kill his wife;
Give a hammer to a nigger, and he will kill whites;
Give a hammer to a jew, and he will sell it to niggers.
"

J.M.
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