Pondering question... Is there a difference???

[fistofyahweh]

I'm curious what are the differences between rapture cultists and the can't war with the beast cultists that are waiting for Yahweh to showup and win the war for them??

Obidiah claims that the House of Judah shall be a fire and flame that burns the House of Esau to stubble.

Gideon only had 300 men to fight and win a war...

I keep thinking how the two groups seem to be quite similar. One group is waiting to be caught up in the clouds and the other group is waiting for a warrior deity to come down and kick some jew ass...

[wmfinck]

That's nice, try reading THE REST of the scripture. The Scripture makes a clear message that we as men CANNOT take up the struggle against the beast. If it were not what Scripture said, then I would have nothing to do with it.

Adolf Hitler, a good Christian man, at the helm of Germany, a good and powerful Christian nation at least 98% of which was solidly behind him, he tried, and he failed. Are you better? If you think you CAN war with the beast, contrary to Scripture, get off your ass and get out in the streets, rather than waste your time here. If you don't believe the Scripture, you are not a Christian and shouldn't be here in the first place.

Are you the guy on the white horse? Read Revelation 19:11-16 below. Tell me, tough guy, what are you waiting for?

Isaiah 1:24-28:
24 Therefore saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies: 25 And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin: 26 And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city. 27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness. 28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed.

Revelation 19:11-16:
11 And I saw the heaven having been opened, and behold! A white horse, and He sitting upon it Faithful and True, and He judges in righteousness and makes war. 12 Now His eyes are as flames of fire, and upon His head are many diadems, having a name inscribed which no one knows except Him, 13 and He is cloaked with a garment dipped in blood, and His Name is called the Word of Yahweh. 14 And the armies in heaven follow Him upon white horses, clothed with clean white linen. 15 And a sharp sword comes out from of His mouth, in order that with it He may smite the Nations, and He shall shepherd them with an iron staff, and He shall trample the vat of the wine of the wrath of the anger of Yahweh Almighty, 16 and He has upon His garment and upon His thigh a name written: “King of Kings and Sovereign of Sovereigns”.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-12:
1 Now we ask you, brethren, concerning the presence of our Prince Yahshua Christ and our gathering to Him, 2 that you are not to be quickly shaken from this purpose; and you should not be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as if by us; as though the day of the Prince is present. 3 You should not be deceived by anyone, in any way, because if apostasy had not come first, and the man of lawlessness been revealed; the son of destruction, 4 he who is opposing and exalting himself above everything said to be a god or an object of worship, and so he is seated in the temple of Yahweh, representing himself that he is a god. 5 Do you not remember that, yet being with you I had told these things to you? 6 And you know that which now prevails, for him to be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already operating, he prevailing only presently, until he should be out of the way, 8 and then will the lawless be revealed, whom Prince Yahshua will destroy with the breath of His mouth, and abolish at the manifestation of His presence. 9 Whose presence is in accordance with the operation of the Adversary in all power and signs and wonders of falsehood, 10 and in every trick of unrighteousness in those who are perishing, because they accepted not the love of the truth, for them to be preserved. 11 And because of this Yahweh sends to them an operation of error, for them to believe in that which is false, 12 that all those should be judged who believing not in the truth, rather have satisfaction in unrighteousness.

Isaiah 63, which uses much the same language as Rev. 19, prophecies that Christ must destroy His enemies by Himself, because his people would not:

Isaiah 63:1-19:
1 Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save. 2 Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat? 3 I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment. 4 For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come. 5 And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me. 6 And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth. 7 I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the LORD, and the praises of the LORD, according to all that the LORD hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his lovingkindnesses. 8 For he said, Surely they are my people, children that will not lie: so he was their Saviour. 9 In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old. 10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them. 11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him? 12 That led them by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name? 13 That led them through the deep, as an horse in the wilderness, that they should not stumble? 14 As a beast goeth down into the valley, the Spirit of the LORD caused him to rest: so didst thou lead thy people, to make thyself a glorious name. 15 Look down from heaven, and behold from the habitation of thy holiness and of thy glory: where is thy zeal and thy strength, the sounding of thy bowels and of thy mercies toward me? are they restrained? 16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting. 17 O LORD, why hast thou made us to err from thy ways, and hardened our heart from thy fear? Return for thy servants' sake, the tribes of thine inheritance. 18 The people of thy holiness have possessed it but a little while: our adversaries have trodden down thy sanctuary. 19 We are thine: thou never barest rule over them; they were not called by thy name.

[fistofyahweh]

Hitler failed because he made alliances with the very Jew bankers that did him in..

If Hitler had fore knowledge that the Jewish financiers were actually behind his demise, then perhaps he would have located the Bankers whereabouts and bombed their private homes and killed off all their relatives, then possibly history would have changed.

I never said I was better and could take on the beast all by myself...

So is Yahweh going to come down with a spaceship armada and kill off our enemies with high energy weapons??

The scripture says he will return as he left... Did he disappear on a tractor beam up to the clouds??

I believe in the scriptures, but the lack of technical terms used for how things happened aren't really clear to people that have technical ways of visualizing things..

What if any opinions would you have on the various nightvision videos on YouTube of high altitude craft that seem to traverse distances of several thousand miles in the span of seconds??? Are they angelic or demonic?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XevJR7biQE8

[wmfinck]

A forum participant who must have read this thread brought this topic up on this Monday night's Open Forum program at Christogenea.net, and it was discussed at length.

There are many passages in scripture which tell us that the creation of Yahweh far transcends the things which we perceive in this world. There are also passages of scripture which describe things that may be perceived to be what we would perhaps now call "UFOs". Job 26:9, 2 Kings 2:11 and Ezekiel Chapter 1 all contain startling descriptions of such things. In Luke Chapter 24 we see Christ taken up into heaven (space), and in Acts Chapter 9, we see that Christ spoke to Paul of Tarsus from above, from a light so bright that it seared Paul's corneas when he attempted to gaze into it.

Yet while it is clear to me that there is much more to Yahweh's creation than we have been given to see here in this age, because we have so little solid information it is something that I do not really like to speculate upon at length. I believe that we must be confident with the Scripture and with what we can know, but we also must be comfortable with what we cannot know. And while none of us can know everything, there are also things which none of us can really know at all - because they are not explained in Scripture and they are not solidly within our historical experience.

Yet I do know this: that nearly all of the supposed UFO/alien contacts promoted by the "alternative" media and the usual writers in that field, are indeed satanic in origin. They all trumpet the same evil message: that we all need to "get along", the same old universalist garbage that satan has been selling us for 7500 years. Therefore I am very critical of all of those tales.

_______________________________________________________________

As for Hitler, this is a different topic entirely, of course, but I do not look at him the same way that many others do. Reading Mein Kampf and examining several other sources of information, it appears to me that Hitler really did not have any care at all for jews or bankers outside of Germany, except for their interaction with Germany. It is clear that he worked with zionists to get jews out of Germany.

Sure, Hitler accepted funds and investments from industrialists and other corporations outside of Germany. And many of those entities had jewish banker backers. But Hitler was glad to take their money: he only wanted a Germany safe from the jews and the communists, most of whom happened to be jews. But furthermore, many of the bankers in the west who were investing in Hitler's Germany were themselves concerned about a communist takeover of Germany, and saw Hitler as a defense against the communists, and therefore as a protection of their investments. That is right: NOT all of the jews are on the same page, and wolves eat wolves nearly as often as they eat sheep.

While bolshevism was a tool of the Rothschilds and certain other jewish banking families, very few insiders could have been privy to their scheming. All of the hare-brained theories concerning Hitler and the jews fall apart on closer inspection. History must be examined in context.

Hope all of this helps.
Bill