Wikipedia argues over adding Christogenea to CI page links

[wmfinck]

I just found this page today. Evidently, back in 2011, Wikipedia editors were debating whether to add Christogenea.org to the external links for their Christian Identity article.

One of them set forth the lame excuse that Alexa was counting the Mein Kampf PDF as the file with the most downloads. While it gets hundreds of downloads every month, if it is the file with the most downloads that is only because it has been posted much longer than many popular podcasts.

In the end, they omitted Christogenea.org, which has been the most popular Christian Idneitty site daily for over 6 years now, and they mention little but turkeys and codgers!

They now only have the FBI as an external link, as if those fools are "objective" about CI, getting all their info from the ADL and the SPLC, and as if they know anything at all.

Here is the quote and the link:

Added Christogenea.org external link

Someone came in and reversed my adds, claiming "we have enough links"... whatever that means.

I reversed the reverse. Christogenea.org is literally the largest website on the internet concerning CI. It consistently stays in the Alexa top 10K websites. It is the go to place for research on the subject, so the link should stay. That's assuming, of course, this page is about objective information. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by VictorSwitzer (talk • contribs) 01:02, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

I've raised the general issues of the links here at WP:ELN. It may well be that this link should stay and others removed. WP:EL is the relevant guideline. Dougweller (talk) 09:14, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Christogenea.org is not "objective information" by any stretch of the imagination. Let's at least be clear about that. Sean.hoyland - talk 09:26, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Here are the Alexa stats. Ranked #96,821 in the world according to the three-month Alexa traffic rankings. Most popular download, Mein Kampf. I don't think the site qualifies under WP:ELYES. I guess someone might argue that it qualifies under WP:ELMAYBE #4 "Sites that fail to meet criteria for reliable sources yet still contain information about the subject of the article from knowledgeable sources". I wouldn't buy that because the site, apart from the "About" page, isn't "about" Christian Identity in the meta-sense. It's a site that promotes all sorts of views associated with the movement. Sean.hoyland - talk 09:48, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

I just removed a couple of links which clearly conflict with WP:EL (we do not link to two different locations on one website without very good reason—find the one page which satisfies the WP:EL guideline and use that). I am having trouble seeing any merit in several of the remaining links, each of which should help the reader with more information directly relevant to the topic of the article. I suppose the FBI link is sufficiently interesting to be kept, and it is certainly on topic. A link to a forum is normally not warranted (WP:ELNO#10), and most of the other pages do not actually provide information on the topic. Johnuniq (talk) 11:43, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I can see the argument here. However, Christogenea serves as a source point for massive amounts of information on the subject as well as archiving the sermons of Wesley Swift and Bertrand Comparet, two of the "founders" of the modern Identity movement. If nothing else, it stands as an excellent source for those who want to learn more about what CI means. Objective? Pushing it. More useful than not? Definitely. — Preceding unsigned comment added by VictorSwitzer (talk • contribs) 22:39, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

The standard procedure is that if a website has a page that is helpful for an article, the external link should go directly to that page. If the website is set up in such a way that that cannot be done, the link is probably not warranted. Johnuniq (talk) 00:34, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

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I'm copying a response from WP:ELN below Dougweller (talk) 05:19, 24 August 2011 (UTC):

"The claim to be adding these links on the ground that we "can never have enough links" is disingenuous, as the person who said that has repeatedly removed a couple of links, as well as adding his/her own links. Not only the links added by that person, but nearly all the external links in the article are not to objective sources of information on the subject, but rather to propaganda pages for organisations advocating "Christian Identity". They have every appearance of being "links mainly intended to promote a website" (quoted from WP:ELNO), they appear to me to be sites "that [do] not provide a unique resource beyond what the article would contain if it became a featured article", and they seem to contain "unverifiable research", if one is to grace such unsubstantiated opinions with the term "research". In addition, one of the links (the one to web.syr.edu) appears to be a dead link, and another (http://www.ucoy.org) links to a web site with nothing to do with the subject of the article: it looks as though the domain name has probably changed hands. As far as I can see the only link in the external links section which has any reasonable claim to comply with our external links policy is the FBI link. Certainly the links added by the person Dougweller refers to do not belong in the article. JamesBWatson (talk) 11:32 am, Yesterday (UTC+1)"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AChristian_Identity

[Acrimonious]

Note about Christogenea.org external link

Someone came in and reversed my adds, claiming "we have enough links"... whatever that means.

I reversed the reverse. Christogenea.org is literally the largest website on the internet concerning CI. <----LOL!

TOTAL lie and Alexa proves this - there are never more than three users on his forums which are mostly sockpuppets. Bill Finck has been completely proven a jew by race and Talmudic "doctrine" of which EVERY known CI pastor has rebuked him. All Analytics prove there are literally hundreds of legit DUAL SEEDLINE webpages all of which are AUTHORIZED to use the Wesley Swift sermons Finck has stolen (and attempted to disprove miserably) from his successors.

Finck and his plagiarized translation are SHUNNED by CI. Mr Finck is a joke using WIKIPEDIA to spread lies and speak for a religion he's never been accepted within. He's a known affiliate of Eli James - stop your trolling Rabbi Finck!

Your attacks on Saxon men for your jewish brother Mark Potok at the ADL have been duly noted! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:CA:202:6784:8593:7B4E:A838:4940 (talk) 14:36, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Emphasis mine, in order to point out the recent addition. Some disingenuous fool or mamzer is already at work, most likely having seen this thread. It's as if they have literally nothing better to do; Scripture is too difficult for them to handle, so they want to mock those working with it instead. Anti-intellectualism at its finest.

[wmfinck]

LOL, Jeromy Visser shows us once again that he watches every post made on this forum, and like the dog that he is, has nothing better to do than troll for every fallen crumb.

[wmfinck]

LOL, Jeromy Visser shows us once again that he watches every post made on this forum, and like the dog that he is, has nothing better to do than troll for every fallen crumb.

Could this be him? This indian-looking fellow? https://sendvid.com/llpj41yr

[Kentucky]

LOL, Jeromy Visser shows us once again that he watches every post made on this forum, and like the dog that he is, has nothing better to do than troll for every fallen crumb.

Could this be him? This indian-looking fellow? https://sendvid.com/llpj41yr

That's him with the little faggot pony tail. He was on Andrew Hitchcock's (chairman pro tem of the Eli James fan club) program the other day. But, before I add to his sordid resume of impersonations (of the "great" variety), let me share some communications I had with Hitchcock in 2014, to wit:

Dear Mr. Hitchcock, I don't know if you remember, but several years ago I was the object of a "dirty tricks" email perpetrated by "Pastor" Jeromy Visser, which was sent having the intent that it was from me (it was not). It was quite vile and profane; I don't recall the exact verbiage, but you and another recipient contacted me, asking if it was from me, which I replied saying it was not. In fact, the sender's email addy (Visser's) was still showing. At the time you mentioned having a trust issue (or something to that effect) with him. He seems to have a lot of time doing these kind of things, being that he continues to slander me to this day. And then has the audacity to whine about himself being slandered. For over 7 years I ignored this nonsense until he recently began attacking my good friend William Finck, who has been a blessing to the Christian Identity community with his translation work and scholarly articles at Christogenea.org. From time to time I go to his website (CPM) to see what kind of mischief he's up to these days. In the link provided, he seems to be giving the impression that you're still colleagues. (link deleted)

Briefly, in case you are not aware of the conflict which has arisen, which started with Eli James saying that one could have 15% mixed blood and still be considered White, has escalated to shades of universalism permeating the James-Visser crowd. To make matters worse, the aforementioned are either unwilling to discuss the unbiblical assertions of universalism or unable to address the subject in a coherent manner. Instead, they have resorted to the insidious tactic of dirty tricks and bearing false witness; most of which has been documented here:

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=5933

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=6034

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=6053

I'm sorry to be such a burden on your valuable time, but the Spirit moved me to inform you about these developments. Certainly, we shall know them by their fruits, and now we see the spoilage from within.

To which he responded:

Dear Pastor Mark,... Again what you say about Visser doesn't surprise me, what I find dangerous is the origins of Wickstrom. He talks a good talk on his show and is an excellent orator, but was associated with Hal Turner, and whilst I apologised to Bob Jones about calling him a circus clown in the email I referred to, I ordered a DVD off Wickstrom that Jones did at a Feast in which he said he was putting a million dollars into CI websites back in 2010 (I think), I have the DVD of him saying this and would have to check. I have not seen these websites, and to be honest I can't be bothered in confronting anyone on this issue. As far as I'm concerned if people are prepared to claim they represent Yahweh and lie, then Yahweh will deal with them in this life or the next.

Before your email arrived I just got a graphic from Skip Baker saying Eli James is a jew, I had heard the Joseph November stuff before, all I know about him is he was very friendly and civil to me and he drove me back to Atlanta airport after the Feast. Unfortunately that does not mean he is or he isn't. Years ago I would have tried to find out about this, now I no longer care.

Hitchcock was either blowing smoke at me or has had a change of heart as he now embraces all of the usual suspects in poisoning Christian Identity, having them all on recent broadcasts. But, here's the admission by Visser in the interview the other day, in which he said he was raised in a Freemason/Eastern Star home in Hollywood, CA; and the high school he attended was mostly jews, where he was readily accepted by them because they thought he was one of them LOL. Why would they think that? Then, Hichcock asks him how he got into Christian Identity and Visser told him it was while he was in jail (he said "county lockup") for a traffic infraction and met a DSL oldtimer. I have a PM from Visser when I was at Stormfront wherein he told me he was an "ex felon." I think there's more to it than a felony being a mere traffic infraction. But, liars have a tendency to lose track of their lies or hope that nobody will remember. People should be aware that Jeromy "Geronimo" Visser is more than just a little troll. He has an agenda to destroy Christian Identity from within, pretending to be a "pastor" and most of his posters in his own forum. He doesn't have the intelligence to write anything (other than one liners in the vernacular of a dope peddler), which is why I suspect his sermons are written by his rabbinic handlers. Maybe his old high school buddies. Whatever his game is, it will lose and fry in the lake of fire.

Mark

[Staropramen]

All Analytics prove there are literally hundreds of legit DUAL SEEDLINE webpages all of which are AUTHORIZED to use the Wesley Swift sermons Finck has stolen (and attempted to disprove miserably) from his successors.

Who has "AUTHORIZATION" to use Swift's sermons which he freely circulated around the globe for over a decade? These recordings were not copyrighted. What is the criteria for "authorized" use? If anything I [and by association Christogenea.org] personally own the actual reel to reels of many sermons that came directly from Swift's office.




If anyone is "authorized" it would be us for doing the necessary legwork to obtain and present these sermons in the best possible quality from the earliest sources rather than 4th generation cassette copies.