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Every Nation said to be represented at The Crucifixion

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Re: Every Nation said to be represented at The Crucifixion

Postby Staropramen » Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:28 pm

Fenwick wrote:I'm always reminded of Cain being driven from the face of the "Earth" and Bertrand Comparet sarcastically asking "What did Cain do, climb into his rocket ship? Of Course not!"


I like that one too and use it often. :)
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Re: Every Nation said to be represented at The Crucifixion

Postby Rogue » Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:40 pm

This is what Seams Macmanus in his book The story of the Irish race,chapter six.

Conor died by a brain-ball that sunk into his skull—fired by the hand of Cet MacMagach, the Connaught champion, whom he had pursued after a Connaught cattle raid.
The legend attached to Conor's death is curious. The .brain-ball fired by Cet did not directly kill him. It sank into his skull— and his doctor, Faith Liag, would not remove it, because that would cause instant death. With care, Conor might live long, carrying the brain-ball. Henceforth, however, he must be moderate in all things, avoid all passion, all violent emotion and lead such a life of calm as kings in those days rarely knew.
Under Faith Liag's wise care Conor contrived to live and enjoy life for seven years. But, one time, his court was thrown into consternation by finding broad day suddenly turned into blackest night, the heavens rent by lightning, and the world rocked by thunder, portending some dread cataclysm. Conor asked his Druids and wise men for explanation of the fearful happening. The Druid Bachrach, a noted seer, told him that there had been in the East, in one of the many countries under the dominion of Rome, a singular man, more noble of character, more lofty of mind, and more beautiful of soul, thant the world had ever before known, or ever again would know—a divine man, a God-man, who spent his life lifting up the lowly, and leading the ignorant to the light, and giving new hope to a hopeless world—one, too, who loved all mankind with a love that surpassed understanding—one, the touch of whose gentle hand gave speech to the dumb, sight to the blind, life to the dead.
He was the noblest, greatest, most beautiful, most loving of men. And now the heavens and the earth were thrown into agony because on this day the tyrant Roman, jealous of his power over the people, had nailed him high upon a cross, and between two crucified thieves, had left the divine man to die a fearful death.
Fired to rage by the thought of the terrible injustice meted out to such a noble one, Conor MacNessa, snatching down the sword that had not been unsheathed for seven years, and crying, **Show me the accursed wretches who did this base deed!" burst through the restraining ring of courtiers, leapt into the storm, dashed through a grove of trees, fiercely hewing down their bending branches and shouting, "Thus would I treat the slayers of that noble Man, could I but reach them."
Under the strain of the fierce passion that held him the brain-ball burst from King Conor's head—and he fell dead
2 Some say that it was a Roman Consul, Altus, who informed Conor of the death of Christ. Still others say it was the Royal Branch champion, Conal Cear-nach—who had been a prisoner with the Romans, and who had been taken by them to the lmits of their Empire, in the course of which expedition, he was in Jerusalem on the day of days, and witnessed the Crucifixion. "A representative of every race of mankind," says the legend, "was on the Hill of Calvary at the dreadful hour." Conal Ceaniach represented the Gael. The beautiful story of Conal Cearnach at the Crucifuiion is related by Ethiia Carbery in her book "From the Celtic Past"
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Re: Every Nation said to be represented at The Crucifixion

Postby Rogue » Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:49 pm

Fenwick wrote:I'm always reminded of Cain being driven from the face of the "Earth" and Bertrand Comparet sarcastically asking "What did Cain do, climb into his rocket ship? Of Course not!"



Can someone correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, our ancestors referred to ethnicity as race, eg the Britons, Picts and Gaels were each called a race,when infact they were just different ethnic groups within the Adamic Race?
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Re: Every Nation said to be represented at The Crucifixion

Postby bahr » Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:54 pm

Can someone correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, our ancestors referred to ethnicity as race, eg the Britons, Picts and Gaels were each called a race,when infact they were just different ethnic groups within the Adamic Race?


In the biblical perspective, the word "race" just mean a patriarchal family, a tribe. Adam, the White man, is the only created species, man, composed of many races. Thus a "sub-race" is also a race. We don't speak the same language as the modern world. :!:
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Re: Every Nation said to be represented at The Crucifixion

Postby Fenwick » Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:35 pm

bahr wrote:In the biblical perspective, the word "race" just mean a patriarchal family, a tribe. Adam, the White man, is the only created species, man, composed of many races.

A great nation and a company of nations! Gen 35:11


It's not always as ancient and outdated as it seems though. In Spanish, "raza" is used for different breeds within the same species, as with dogs.

And it's used in poetic form too. The West's Awake, circa 1850:

And long a brave and haughty race
Honoured and sentinelled the place.
Sing, Oh! not even their sons' disgrace
Can quite destroy their glory's trace.



Now I think of it, in many medieval writings I've seen, "race", "people" and "nation" seem to be used fairly interchangeably. Perhaps the insistence that a nation is a set of borders and nothing else is a fairly new degeneracy.

Oh I remembered another point! Relevent to Bill's recent discussion of the Greek "world" being limited to those closely related peoples who dwelt near them. The Irish actually called the Danes "black men", referring to their hair colour.

They would not have done this if they had had contact with actual black-skinned people. Their view of the world was such that other white tribes could be called a race. There was no cultural understanding that "black men" could refer to anything other than hair and eyes.
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Re: Every Nation said to be represented at The Crucifixion

Postby wmfinck » Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:06 pm

I have explained several times throughout my commentariy podcasts that to the Greeks, a genos was very often a division of an ethnos. That means a race was a division of a nation. Why is that incredible to understand?

Think of it this way. Israel was a single family. Then it was divided into 12 nations. See Deuteronomy 32:43 as well as Genesis 48 & 49. The Greeks may have considered the entire family to be a single race, as a part of the larger Hebrew and even larger Adamic family.

But when each individual tribe grew large, each family within a tribe could be a race. Judah is the most obvious example, where there is a race of Pharez, a race of Zarah, and a race of Shelah.

At first Israel was one family with 12 nations inside (Deuteronomy 32:43, Psalm 18:49 once goyim is properly translated as nations. [David was not running around professing the name of God to foreigners.] So Israel itself was a nation of nations, and so was Judah later. However since they all had the same customs, religion and language an outsider would have seen them as all one nation.

Later when each tribe divided many times in captivity, spreading over Eurasia in different directions and at different rates, the one nation of nations who were all originally of the same race became many nations each with their own diverse tribes and ever-sprouting sub-divisions.

So what is a race, or what is a nation, is relative according to the context. Israel was one race of nations, and one nation of races. Then it became many nations although they were originally all the same race!

Well, I hope this helps.
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Re: Every Nation said to be represented at The Crucifixion

Postby Rogue » Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:47 pm

Joe wrote:I did not know the Irish were head-hunters and made such unusual objects.


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Just wanted to add that it wasn't just the Celts in Ireland that were head-hunters, but Celtic people on the continent Also.

"(The Gauls) cut off the heads of enemies slain in battle and attach them to the necks of their horses. The blood stained spoils they hand over to their attendants and carry off as booty, while striking up a paean and singing a song of victory, and they nail up these first fruits upon their houses just as those who lay low wild animals in certain kinds of hunting. They embalm in cedar oil the heads of the most distinguished enemies and preserve them carefully in a chest, and display them with pride to strangers, saying that, for this head, one of their ancestors, or his father, or the man himself, refused a large sum of money. They say that some of them boast that they refused the weight of the head in gold" - Diodorus Siculus.


"There is also that custom, barbarous and exotic, which attends most of the northern tribes, when they depart from the battle they hang the heads of their enemies from the necks or their horses, and when they have brought them home, nail the spectacle to the entrance of their houses. At any rate Posidonius says that he himself saw this spectacle in many places, and that, although he first loathed it, afterwards through his familiarity with it, he could bear it calmly" – Strabo
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