"Who was the Serpent..."

[PhillipWMorrow]

Brand new commentary from Sacred Truth Ministries. Also tackles the local/worldwide flood. You may think you know all there is to know here. Then again...! http://stm.christogenea.org/index.php/n ... -the-earth

[wmfinck]

This is the problem with the old school CI pastors. Robert should have his writing online. Or at least enough of a summary that his thesis is exposed for people to see.

If I had only one choice, to give my wriiting away or to sit in seclusion and write books hoping to sell them, well, you see the choice I have taken. Paul of Tarsus should be the example after which we pattern ourselves.

Funny, but Clifton brought Robert up on the Chat server the other night. Clifton usually only brings someone up to me when he gets a call.

Clifton said that Robert believed in a whole world flood, which we both find to be ridiculous and anti-Scriptural. I can maintain that position, and I am willing to defend it.

Clifton also said that Robert thinks water baptism and circumcision are both necessary to salvation, which we both find to be tyrannically pharisaical and anti-Scriptural.

Yahweh willing, one day soon I will be able to write a commentary on Genesis which exceeds and documents what I did in the Pragmatic Genesis podcasts.

[MichaelAllen]

I've never found one single serious scholar in CI that believed in a global flood. So Noah liked niggers and jews, I guess? He put them on the ark, and saved them. Wow, thanks Grandpa Noah!!

[PhillipWMorrow]

I've never found one single serious scholar in CI that believed in a global flood. So Noah liked niggers and jews, I guess? He put them on the ark, and saved them. Wow, thanks Grandpa Noah!!

Boy that sounds a bit harsh and narrow minded. I'm not defending ole' school CI because I fall into that group. Still when I see their error I am quick to adjust. I'm not an "internet CI" I have been at this a very long time and truly it's gut wrenching to me that we can't agree to disagree and remain respectful to one another. I've read a lot of commentary over the years beginning w/ Rand. And from a purely CI perspective who are today's modern day commentators? I'm not gonna be a disciple of any man but the net is not the only show in town! If that's where your spiritual needs are met you're just standing on top of the iceberg. I think Bill does himself a huge disservice by not publishing a lot of his work at a fair price to help him help us even more so. So what have you read lately? I'm interested in what you are the other scholars are reading. Where do I have to go to pull it up on the screen? Truly we are a stiff necked people. And to what scholars do you refer? May Yah keep and Bless You Sir. PWM I'll let you know how "The Serpent..." reads.

[wmfinck]

I do not want to ever sound like I am whining about money, so do not interpret this in that manner.

If someone really wanted to, they could buy my CDs, have all the recordings, and also have all the notes in printable format. Then they could print it all themselves, and I do not get another dime.

But in fact, nobody even needs to buy the CDs. That is because the notes to all my Bible studies can be downloaded at the bottom of each page, on the same page where the podcast is found. They are in Open Document Format, so they can be printed from MS Word or from the free office software available on the internet.

They will just have to do the printing themselves.

Of course, I do reserve the rights to my material, and there is a copyright notice on my website. I hold US Library of Congress copyrights on a lot of my work as well, to protect my own rights. But I do not care if people give copies away freely.

I also offer a monthly magazine, but that and the books which I do have generate very few sales. Maybe I get an average royalty of $150 on books, CDs and magazines combined.

Just enough to pay the internet bill, LOL

If the books, CDs and magazines which I do publish would sell, then that would encourage me to make more books. Because they do not sell well, it tells me that people do not want them. So why should I spend the time to make more?

I might end up with a Walmart job in any case, LOL, but until that time comes I will spend my time producing content, and not worrying about selling copies of it.

[PhillipWMorrow]

The problem w/ old school CI's is that's ALL there was in the 80's. You had Aryan Nations and The American Institute of Theology. PERIOD! We didn't have the net or people like Bill to provide for our needs. So now it looks like we have spawned a whole generation of net CI's. When I speak to some others about different pastors, doctrine, etc. some always have the "Bill's stuff is all free". And I think that great and appreciate all his work and opinion. I doubt Bill considers himself infallible. Do people not build personal libraries anymore?
D/L'ing the net doesn't count. I am not trying to insult anyone. There's enough of that going round and I don't want to be party to that. I tried to do someone a service and I get a flip and rude answer. Maybe this person can tell me what all the scholars are reading and where he goes to d/l them.

[wmfinck]

Well, it would serve Robert and all of us if he could at least put a synopsis of each of his books online. hen people would be able to see his premise and consider it before buying his book. Money is scarce, and people want to make certain something is worth buying.

I may even buy the book, if I thought it had something to offer I could learn from, rather than something to argue against.

When I buy any of the Classics, I buy them because of the name of the original author, because the work is important to our understanding and the history of our race, and therefore I do not want samples first.

But a lot of the books I buy are technical manuals for Linux operating systems, programming references, etc. And on the occasions I shop for such books, I go to the bookstore, get a pile of 4-5 books on the subject I need, go get a cup of coffee, and sit there and read enough of each one of them so as to determine whether or not they are worth buying.

Here in the Christogenea forum, there are a few newcomers to CI. But there are several dozen members who have been involved in CI for as long, or sometimes much longer than I myself. They will not generally buy a CI book by its title. They all know the Scriptures well enough to understand two things, even if they do not always agree on the events of Genesis 3. Those two things are:

1) The nature of the serpent.
2) What can be known of the serpent through Scripture.

If Robert thinks he has insight on the nature or identity of the serpent beyond that, he should at least publish enough information on his website to convince us that his thesis is worth investigating, and then maybe some people will buy his book. If the book is worthwhile, then I am certain they would recommend it to others.

As for the flood. MichaelAllen is right, that most traditional CI teachers, at least from the time of Swift, Comparet, and Emry, taught that the flood was a local flood.

I am certain that I can demonstrate that the flood was a local flood from just two verses of Scripture, and a simple understanding of one word from Strong's Concordance.

So if Robert wants to convince us that the flood was a global flood, he has an uphill battle. But I do not think too many people here are going to buy his book without first seeing enough of his premise to be persuaded that Robert has something convincing to say on the topic that they should read.

So again, Robert should make a synopsis on his website outlining his premise, and that would help people determine whether or not they should purchase his book.

Although we probably have a lot to disagree upon, Robert and I have a lot that we agree on. I have nothing against Robert. I even hope he reads this. You cannot sell a book by its cover, or its title.

Actually, the Christreich title scares people away, but they are dense and I will not change it. I would probably sell three or four times the copies, if I titled it "An Historicist Commentary on the Revelation of Jesus Christ", and I know that. But it will remain as Christreich in spite of the prospects. The people who are scared off by the title are not good prospects anyway, LOL

SO maybe Robert will consider writing some synopses for his books, so that people can judge better whether or not they should buy them.

[MichaelAllen]

Phil, if I came off as rude, let me be the first to apologize for how it was perceived.

When I say CI scholar, I mean any Bible student in CI who has searched out a matter unprejudiced and written on it. There are many scholars right here at this forum. Most don't consider themselves such. To me, the greatest scholar considers himself (or herself) as primarily a student who is eager to share what they have found. I have a truckload full of old CI/Anglo-Israel tapes, everything from Swift, Comparet, Sheldon Emry, Earl Jones to Pete Peters, Ted Weiland, Jack Mohr, Charles Jennings, Dave Barley, Dick Hoskins, and a lot of other people who came and went through the ranks over the years as speakers at conferences, who did not necessarily have a "ministry" in some continuous way. Pete Peters did a couple of messages on the implausibility of a global flood. I know that Sheldon Emry did so as well. So, these are all in my library, and at some point, I want to digitize all of them and publish them on the web for free d/l (with permission from themselves or from whomever acts as their clearinghouse regarding those who have passed).

I have no reason to doubt that Mr. Balacius is trying to do the work that he believes God has called him to do. But, like Bill said, funds are really tight for a lot of us, and believe me, if I could support another person's ministerial efforts, I would do it and not even bat an eye. But until I have an income that takes some serious strain off my family, I can't afford to purchase books, fund ministries, etc. Those who can should.

Personally, I've never been unwilling to hear out an argument of any theological position of another white man. Now, if it starts getting asinine to the point where I feel like a jew is talking to me, I'm likely to cut the person off and try to see if he is "all there" if you catch my drift. However, I don't think this way of Mr. Balacius at all.

A person who believes in a global flood might have a reason for believing it - I'm sure Mr. Balacius has a reason to believe that - however, a reason, and a full apologetic are two different things, and even if he has an apologetic, it doesn't necessarily make it right. As to my narrow-mindedness? The fact is, I'm far from it. But see, about 20 questions immediately pop into my mind if I even so much as hear "global flood." If Mr. Balacius can sufficiently answer these questions, I would be open to a reconsideration of my position. To be narrow-minded would mean that I wouldn't listen to him make the arguments, and that's not true at all.

I read a lot of very old theology, archaeology, and history books in my personal (hard copies) library. A few years ago, I came across a little bit of money due to my employment and I went about the task of purchasing books that were the source materials for other works that often appear in CI. So for instance, I purchased a rare book like "Who were the Cimmerians" and volumes such as the Royal Correspondence of the Assyrian Empire that contain the translated texts from those tablets that were dug up by men such as Dr. Waterman near Mosul, Iraq (Ninevah). I bought Assyrian and Babylonian Chronicles, and a whole host of others. I have read a lot of books that contain stories that pre-date most of the events of even Genesis, or perhaps are telling things from a different cultural viewpoint, or simultaneous events during the accounts of Genesis. My wife's undergraduate degree was in Humanities and focused in Egyptology. We took to CI like a fish to water, and in fact, our first contact was via radio, not the world wide web, however it soon took that form.

I entertain a lot of different positions about the pre-bronze age and bronze age civilizations of Adamic man, but very few of them have I ever come to a solid conclusion on. The reason? We are looking very dimly into the past, and trying to piecemeal it all back together, working through the hyperbolic language of the oriental Hebraic mindset is hard enough. Try going back another 1000 years or more. Btw... oriental does not mean chinks.

We have all been raised in the occidental viewpoint, and that makes it difficult for us to read apocalyptic writing from ancient sources, where it is assumed that the reader will understand the local culture, idioms, expressions, hyperboles, etc. It's a real tough job trying to peer through all of that murkiness. That style and mode of communication simply isn't part of Adamic man's culture any longer, and we are pretty well clueless about a lot of those things. However, what I do find convinces me that we are the Adamic race and directly descend from the Abrahamic Covenant.

Concerning agreeing to disagree, I do this all the time. There are disagreements on theological positions all over this board. Bill mentioned that some people at the forum don't necessarily see the exact events of Genesis 3 the same way as he does. Again, it's because it's written in a very veiled way, and personally, it's something that I have vacillated back and forth on many times. I'll give another example - I no longer hold to historicism as my eschatological viewpoint as Bill and Clifton and many others here do, but I don't see that as a major disruption of our faith - nothing about either my position or theirs would open the doors to universalism, anti-nomianism, nor would it compromise the identity of ourselves and Christ, nor would it let the jews off the hook for anything they do. I have about 200 pages written on my eschatological viewpoint, and how I came to it, etc... but the fact is, I'm not done with it, and I'm not in a position in life right now where I can afford the time to enter into either a public or private debate about it on a grand scale. Until that time comes, I'm not going to cause dissention among board members in a public way because I just don't feel it is worth a division. In fact, I intend to go to my mentors first and allow them to critique my research, state what they feel is right or wrong about it, and then go back to studying it some more. I just don't get emotionally caught up in theology in a way that many people do. For me, truth seeking is a simple function of logic and intense research and diligent study.

My comment on the global flood that you found rude was probably just me being my usual smart-aleck self. Given the fact that - as I understand it - the other races origins cannot be traced to Yahweh in scripture, and we know of the commands to remain a separate people, I don't understand how the other races and/or the wicked could have gotten on that boat with Noah and his family. It doesn't make sense to me. If Mr. Balacius can explain these things, I'm willing to listen, and in fact, I'm eager to listen. I don't really care what the truth ends up being, I just know that I want it.

[Joe]

MichaelAllen wrote

Personally, I've never been unwilling to hear out an argument of any theological position of another white man.

Neither have I. I disagree with your eschatology, as you know. But I do not know all the detailes to make a proper judgement. Even then I would not dismiss your view entirely nor would it affect our fellowship in anyway whatsoever. I am sure that you probably see things differently, which is a good thing.

We are just men.

I have about 200 pages written on my eschatological viewpoint

I would like to see that.

[MichaelAllen]

MichaelAllen wrote

I have about 200 pages written on my eschatological viewpoint

I would like to see that.

Probably going to have to wait on that one, Joe. Lol!

I'm trying to get some things lined up academically and career wise. I have to keep putting further research and study to the backburner to try to rebuild my livelihood and hack a living out of this babylonish system that we're all tied up in - and on top of that, balancing it with the wife and kids' need for my presence in the home.

Sorry to say, I'm thinking it's going to be at least another year! I don't see myself having much time in the near future - unfortunately.

It's not just that one subject either... On my list of long term projects, I have what I estimate to be a three year study of all the early Greek Christian writers - my aim is to find out if they left us any evidences of their knowledge of the true ethnic Israel. If mainstream judeochristian preachers have read Josephus for centuries and sort of just read over his details about the fact that the "jews" of the New Testament are not all Israelites and that the Spartans of Greece were fellow covenant children of Abraham alongside the true Judeans, then I'm of good mind to suspect that these same judeochristian preachers and theologians who may have read all of the early Greek Fathers have skimmed over something and missed it altogether, not really understanding what may have been being said. Heck, they don't even see it when they read specific NT passages about Israel identity, so if it's in the early Church fathers somewhere, you can bet your socks that the judeochristian preachers aren't going to be the ones to discover it!! Lol. I'm really excited about doing this one in particular because if we can find some sort of continuity, then we can permanently rid ourselves of this "orthodox" hang up in certain circles.

So, fair warning, I'm gonna be on hiatus for awhile.