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Martial Arts and unarmed self-defence

Just keep it lawful.

Re: Martial Arts and unarmed self-defence

Postby Gallowglass » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:17 am

I find the idea of the choking someone with a leaf is a bit stupid, sorry Staropramen, but the guy who showed you that might know how to use that by many years of training but the average or even skillful person would never use such odd technique in real combat, ever. It would be the LAST thing to put my fingers in someone's mouth, I love my fingers you know. The first natural self defense reaction are punches or grappling, if one connects to his jaw is a KO, everything else is not necesssary after that, unless I have to then I'd rather use the choke hold, it works for me.

I got to agree with Nico here but let's keep it civil.
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Re: Martial Arts and unarmed self-defence

Postby OldKingCole » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:31 am

I like to carry a 36" dog's neck chain. The kind that has on each end a large circular ring attached. It fits nicely in a jacket pocket and serves as both an effective striking tool for distance engagement and a strangulation device if it goes to the ground. If a cop finds it on you it's a dog walking chain for my dog.

My first choice is a gun, just for the record. :)
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Re: Martial Arts and unarmed self-defence

Postby NicoChristian » Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:40 am

You know, even if non-firearms weapons are not allowed, you could use something else. You could use a walking stick, umbrella, small stick. Sometimes any small item can give you an advantage. One skill is being able to use anything at your disposal as a weapon. Get creative.
YHWH bless.
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Re: Martial Arts and unarmed self-defence

Postby Filidh » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:11 am

If you're in a 1-on-1 non-life-threatening fight against another Aryan, then, in my opinion and only my opinion, honor should be used. However, in a fight that doesn't fit into the above, then you should do whatever it takes to not die.

Again, in my opinion, don't fight dirty if it's 1-on-1 against an Aryan and non-life-threatening, or even if it's not 1-on-1 but it's still not life-threatening then still fight fair, but if you're on the ground getting hit over and over by a guy while three of his buddies watch, then anything goes.

So, if you're both still on foot and he overpowers and chokes you (or, for example, if he chokes you, throws you up against a wall and continues choking you), have your hands dive upwards thru the gap created by his arms. This dislodges him for a splitsecond while putting his arms away from his head for that splitsecond - so box his ears as hard as possible. Make this whole thing one fluid motion, from the upward dive to the earbox.

Ballkicks so you can run away real quick. If he's on the ground pounding you, eyegouges can help, also grabbing one of his hands with both of yours and biting off a finger - because you used both arms, chances are he won't be able to pull away in time. If you have a key or something small, long, and metal on you, jam it into his ear or eye.

If you're losing and you wanna leave him something to remember you by so it isn't a complete loss, go to town on his shins. Kick, punch, rage against his shins like they're jewishness incarnate. They'll feel it in the morning.

And always view the surrounding area for improvised weapons.

Just some random stuff, not really new or inventive, but hopefully someone gets a kick out of it.

Also, choking someone with a leaf, while being insanely awesome if done properly, is nonetheless unrealistic for most. I mean...if someone tried to do that, I'd bite their finger off. Bam done.

---

Also, I'm considering taking up Hapkido. What do ya'll think?
real name's trevor :-)
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Re: Martial Arts and unarmed self-defence

Postby Nayto » Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:26 am

I probably sound like a stuck record, but as someone who has done MMA, strength can make or break you in a fight. It takes a lot of experience and courage to take on a stronger opponent. Unfortunately our fight or flight mechanisms are not naturally well equipped to handle situations like this and our natural reactions need to be conditioned. Otherwise you will quickly find yourself down a creek without a paddle. Suffice to say that unless the larger opponent is untrained or a "street fighter" and unless you have much more experience, strength is almost always the deciding factor. It's just so crucial that it must be put equal to training in effectiveness.

An intermediate in any strength training can already exert much more force than someone who is sedentiary. I have often witnessed the shock and horror a weaker opponent experiences upon realising the reality of the situation -- Even subjectively... From both sides, lol. People play out how a fight is going to happen in their heads, but it is nothing but vanity. It almost never plays out that way. Never mind that premeditated attack/defence is a recipe for disaster, only internalised, purposeful reactions from hours of training will help you. When that premeditated, inexperienced attack is received by overwhelming strength your brain will shut down, trust me.

So train for strength, train for experience, train for technique. All are equal and synergistic with each other.

I personally think hapkido is not very practical. If you are living in the USA then join an MMA school if you are serious. While not very graceful, it is very practical if make sure to join a school that does at least light contact sparring. Full contact will really give you the stones for practical fighting though. It will change how your brain handles bad circumstances and you will remain level headed and even learn to focus adrenal reactions to how you want/need them (no weird stuff, purely natural). Failing MMA you should do a combination of Jiu Jitsu for grappling and ground combat combined with a practical stand-up style like Muay Thai or even some Karate/kickboxing schools.
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Re: Martial Arts and unarmed self-defence

Postby SwordBrethren » Mon Aug 12, 2013 12:36 pm

I have seen people who were jacked and ripped lose to very technical fighters.


A friend of mine, sporting a pot belly, but with several years of wrestling experience and 4 years of BJJ, crippled a young man who was jacked/ripped but had otherwise done nothing to prepare for MMA fighting expect weight lifting and strength training. The guy had enough power to wrench his way out of a triangle choke, lift my friend up, and slam him down, but it didn't help him, in the end he had to be carried out of the cage because he couldn't walk.


Anybody who watches the first five or six UFCs, or PRIDE from Japan will see that the highly technical fighters almost always win, especially over the strong bulky brawler types who have minimal technique.


A person who has trained 8-12 years of BJJ, grappling/wrestling, etc, will almost certainly triumph over an individual who outweighs him by 100 pounds and can bench/squat two or three times as much.


1- Technique

2- Endurance

3- Speed/timing

4- Strength



If two opponents of equal technique meet, strength will probably be the deciding factor, but strength cannot overcome a massive disparity in technical training.


Guy A-

10 years of boxing, 10 years of BJJ, 5 years of judo, does not lift weights.


Guy B-

2 years of wrestling, can bench 600 and squat 1000.


The weight lifting of Guy B will not be able to close the massive gap that exists between his lack of technique and his opponent's overwhelming technique.
Revelation 18:
Und ich hörte eine andere Stimme vom Himmel, die sprach: Gehet aus von ihr, mein Volk, daß ihr nicht teilhaftig werdet ihrer Sünden, auf daß ihr nicht empfanget etwas von ihren Plagen!

Denn ihre Sünden reichen bis in den Himmel, und Gott denkt an ihren Frevel.


Judentum ist Verbrechertum!

Heute ist Deutschland die größte Weltmacht! - Der Führer 30 Januar 1940
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Re: Martial Arts and unarmed self-defence

Postby Nayto » Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:52 pm

SwordBrethren wrote:A friend of mine, sporting a pot belly, but with several years of wrestling experience and 4 years of BJJ, crippled a young man who was jacked/ripped but had otherwise done nothing to prepare for MMA fighting expect weight lifting and strength training. The guy had enough power to wrench his way out of a triangle choke, lift my friend up, and slam him down, but it didn't help him, in the end he had to be carried out of the cage because he couldn't walk.


Yes. Four or more years can make a big difference. The point is that the wrenched himself out of a choke and slammed his opponent down. One wrong fall and your friend could have had broken bones.

SwordBrethren wrote:Anybody who watches the first five or six UFCs, or PRIDE from Japan will see that the highly technical fighters almost always win, especially over the strong bulky brawler types who have minimal technique.


This is incorrect, even apart from the fact that there are weight catagories. Although depending on myofybril hypertrophy, the one could have more bang for his buck. Hearing testimonies of pro-MMA trainers, the first thing their battered fighter says when he gets to the corner after a round is, "That guy is so much stronger than me."

SwordBrethren wrote:A person who has trained 8-12 years of BJJ, grappling/wrestling, etc, will almost certainly triumph over an individual who outweighs him by 100 pounds and can bench/squat two or three times as much.


The experienced individual has a much higher chance, yes.

I fought the world number two ISKA female kickboxer who was also an MMA fighter (who happened to be in the same school as me). I outweighed her by about 70 or 75 pounds and with minimal experience I overpowered her. I was not nearly as strong then as I am now.

Having actually done MMA, I was more comfortable with smaller, more experienced opponents than I was with larger, less experienced opponents. There is so much more room for error from a technical standpoint. Even if my technique sucks, I can still wrench the person with a burst of energy. They wouldn't stand a chance of the sloppy offensive move was reciprocated, because I'd just overpower it.


SwordBrethren wrote:1- Technique

2- Endurance

3- Speed/timing

4- Strength


I don't mean to be a hard-ass, but this list is typical of someone who has little experience in strength and martial arts. Strength naturally gives speed and endurance. The idea that someone who has a lot of muscle is slow is a complete myth. Strong people, assuming they're not carrying too much fat, are much faster. The more muscle you have the more explosive power you have. Also strength naturally creates endurance to a certain point in that because you are stronger each movement requires less effort. I never train long-distance running, but I could run 5 miles easily in a decent time because I train my legs for strength and I do sprints, which increase strength and muscle size as well. With high intensity training like sprints, the higher level VO2max training on your cardiovascular system naturally trickles down to better aerobic capabilities. Never mind that your cardiovascular system gets trained very well if you are taking only 1 or 2 minute breaks between sets or if you're going supersets.

You can have endurance without strength anyway, but the raw strength of the person is going to blow the endurance away with power. If a strong person uses 50% effort to overcome the durable person's 100% effort, what does the endurance count for? Endurance only helps if the opponents are of equal strength. You can't have speed without strength. It is a physical impossibility. I will concede that good technique can increase speed, but strength is much more effective at increasing speed.

SwordBrethren wrote:If two opponents of equal technique meet, strength will probably be the deciding factor, but strength cannot overcome a massive disparity in technical training.


Guy A-

10 years of boxing, 10 years of BJJ, 5 years of judo, does not lift weights.


Guy B-

2 years of wrestling, can bench 600 and squat 1000.


The weight lifting of Guy B will not be able to close the massive gap that exists between his lack of technique and his opponent's overwhelming technique.


I'd put my money on the more experienced fighter in this case specifically, but I wouldn't be surprised if the off chance came to pass that the stronger won. You see, the experienced fighter just has to make one mistake and it's over. It's not very likely, but possible nonetheless.

I say again, experience, technique and strength are all equal. With two factors, not necessarily the same, having the same values, the difference of the outstanding factor will more than likely be the deciding factor. Assuming you can measure any of them, but just for the sake of the argument.
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Re: Martial Arts and unarmed self-defence

Postby SwordBrethren » Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:11 pm

Nayto wrote:


I don't mean to be a hard-ass, but this list is typical of someone who has little experience in strength and martial arts. Strength naturally gives speed and endurance. The idea that someone who has a lot of muscle is slow is a complete myth. Strong people, assuming they're not carrying too much fat, are much faster. The more muscle you have the more explosive power you have. Also strength naturally creates endurance to a certain point in that because you are stronger each movement requires less effort. I never train long-distance running, but I could run 5 miles easily in a decent time because I train my legs for strength and I do sprints, which increase strength and muscle size as well. With high intensity training like sprints, the higher level VO2max training on your cardiovascular system naturally trickles down to better aerobic capabilities. Never mind that your cardiovascular system gets trained very well if you are taking only 1 or 2 minute breaks between sets or if you're going supersets.

You can have endurance without strength anyway, but the raw strength of the person is going to blow the endurance away with power. If a strong person uses 50% effort to overcome the durable person's 100% effort, what does the endurance count for? Endurance only helps if the opponents are of equal strength. You can't have speed without strength. It is a physical impossibility. I will concede that good technique can increase speed, but strength is much more effective at increasing speed.





Actually when somebody says "not to be an ass" they are usually being an ass. Along the lines when somebody says, 'not to interrupt but" they are interrupting, or "not to be nosy but" they are being nosy. It's fine if you have a different opinion from mine, but to say, "anybody who disagrees just lacks experience" is being an ass.


I have four years experience training BJJ and will probably reach purple belt level within the next 12-18 months. To say that my opinions reveal "lack of experience with martial arts" is insulting.


In one instance I managed to sweep somebody who was on top of me [who weighed around 410 pounds], come up on top of him, knee on chest, and then go into an arm-bar. I cannot bench press 400 pounds, I cannot squat 400 pounds, I might be able to leg press 400 pounds, but strictly speaking, on the grounds of strength alone, I should not have been able to do that.



I find that people who are under 30 and who have trained the modern generation of martial arts, especially those coming out of Brazil, realize that somebody who is a big strong meat-head without technique is just an injury waiting to happen.

You could take a 1970s Stallone or Schwarzenagger and put them up against a small 5'7 Brazilian with a black belt in BJJ and the Brazilian would literally cripple them.


We can Bocksar to weigh in and offer his opinion, he boxed amateur for 15-20+ years [even golden gloves] and did some pro fights and he's done some BJJ and he believes technique always trumps strength.
Revelation 18:
Und ich hörte eine andere Stimme vom Himmel, die sprach: Gehet aus von ihr, mein Volk, daß ihr nicht teilhaftig werdet ihrer Sünden, auf daß ihr nicht empfanget etwas von ihren Plagen!

Denn ihre Sünden reichen bis in den Himmel, und Gott denkt an ihren Frevel.


Judentum ist Verbrechertum!

Heute ist Deutschland die größte Weltmacht! - Der Führer 30 Januar 1940
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Re: Martial Arts and unarmed self-defence

Postby SwordBrethren » Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:47 pm

Nayto wrote:
This is incorrect, even apart from the fact that there are weight catagories. Although depending on myofybril hypertrophy, the one could have more bang for his buck. Hearing testimonies of pro-MMA trainers, the first thing their battered fighter says when he gets to the corner after a round is, "That guy is so much stronger than me."



Reading between the lines, that basically translates to "that guy's technique is massively better than mine, he was drilling technique while I was drinking beers and womanizing."

Somebody who has a black belt and can bench 300 pounds is almost certainly going to do better than somebody who is a purple belt but is able to bench 600 pounds.


In BJJ the word in most gyms is along these lines "if you really want to insult somebody, after they beat you, tell them "wow you're so strong" and you'll have just insulted their technique, especially if they're a black belt."


Most people who say, "he was stronger than me" just don't want to concede that the other person had vastly superior technique and put more time, energy, and effort into technical training.
Revelation 18:
Und ich hörte eine andere Stimme vom Himmel, die sprach: Gehet aus von ihr, mein Volk, daß ihr nicht teilhaftig werdet ihrer Sünden, auf daß ihr nicht empfanget etwas von ihren Plagen!

Denn ihre Sünden reichen bis in den Himmel, und Gott denkt an ihren Frevel.


Judentum ist Verbrechertum!

Heute ist Deutschland die größte Weltmacht! - Der Führer 30 Januar 1940
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Re: Martial Arts and unarmed self-defence

Postby NicoChristian » Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:32 pm

I've noticed that it's always down to the individual. Sometimes a guy with great technique will beat a massive guy or vice-versa. I think it's wrong to draw all examples from professionals. There are thousands if not millions of fighters in the world and small elite of MMA professionals hardly represent the rest of us. I've seen people with years of experience get thumped simply because they underestimated a younger opponent. I've seen young men get destroyed by older experienced men because they also lacked experience and thought they knew enough to defeat a seasoned, experienced fighter. In my personal experience, I've been defeated by a seasoned boxer, only to later give him a thrashing. I've fought young fighters and easily overcome them due to experience. I've gone against much stronger opponents and lost because I couldn't match their speed or strength. I've defeated bigger opponents simply by being awkward and using a difficult style of fighting. None of the above examples can fall into any real category. To sit there and say he's got a weight advantage, height advantage, strength advantage is also irrelevant. Somebody will say I once defeated a bloke three times as big as me, you defeated that guy, but one example doesn't prove anything. Sometimes you may be able to defeat a bigger man, sometimes he'll beat you. Defeating one person means nothing as you may lose to the next guy. Some people have years of experience, but have failed to learn anything in that time. Another aspect is mental ability and heart, some people have all the physical ability, but after receiving one good shot will give up. I saw one seasoned fighter once give up after receiving one knee to the stomach. Some people will not give up until they're forced to, while others will give up as soon as anything goes wrong. How much a person wants to win and is willing to give also matters.

To sum it all up, you can categorize fighters because all people are different in strength, mental ability, speed, weight, height and experience. To sit here and say any BJJ fighter would defeat a boxer is wrong, depends on the fighters. Grapplers have to get in close and are vunerable to strikes before closing in, BJJ does not make you invincible, neither does any martial art, all a fighting system does is give you an advantage and prepare you better for combat.
YHWH bless.
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