Re: America: The Beginning Of The End
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 11:31 pm
Gaius wrote:There are many sincere people in Reformed who do not see its obvious failing.
This is so true. When you bring up an inconsistency in what they do believe, you may be in for some fireworks so to speak. When eyes are blind, they truly cannot see what seems so obvious to us. You may give them chapter and verse ... but in a sense there is arminian creep into their own interpretations.
Thanks for your comments I am like you ... ever hopeful ... when it comes to those I know and love.
MichaelAllen wrote:In the past, I did listen to a lot of reform theologians myself such as Gentry, Bahnsen, etc... because they were ostensibly for God's law... but you put these guys to the test, and without exception they would be the first to call folks like us sinners for being racists or whatever.
We still have Bahsen and Gentry books in our library ... and Gary North ... and others, but they simply gather dust. They were a tight circle with what sounded to be scholarly ideas. When one is "hungry" seeking Truth ... it can be a very muddy path you find yourself on. You are right ...they do call us sinners.
MichaelAllen wrote:Well, then there's the problem in the traditional predestinarian mindset which would kind of come to this... "God only predestined certain individuals to be called, justified, etc." and this basically means, when they die, they won't suffer in hell for all eternity... but see, there are a lot of people who have accepted the TULIP construct of the modern Calvinist believers, who have no clue about God's laws. So then, the question begs, "What is the purpose of God's choosing just a few individuals to be saved in the here after?" --- I guess what I'm getting at is ultimately, what is the point of the here and now? Is it not to produce the kingdom of God on earth?
You are so right that even those who profess to believe we should live according to God's law, look at you rather horrified when you mention the stoning of certain peoples. They believe in theory that all God's laws should be honored and obeyed, but in actuality, they really do not think it through. So many are not students of the Book. They are so worried about becoming legalists as well, being hit over the head time and again with we are not under law, but under grace ... from other sectors of Judeo-Christianity. At least in reformed circles, they talk about the importance of knowing God's law-Word.
Thinking about "the point of the here and now," without an understanding of who is whom ... there is no point. For us, though, we are to occupy ... be about our Father's business.
MichaelAllen wrote:100 years ago, nearly every white person in America would have hung a sign on their door which read: "No niggers allowed," and they would have felt not one bit "sinful" or "mean-spirited" for doing so. Even though they didn't hang the signs, everyone knew those signs were there de jure - call it a social understanding.
I have not lived 100 years quite yet, but I do know there has been a HUGE cultural shift in this regard even in my own lifetime. People have forgotten history. They have forgotten just how white we were ... and the many laws that prevented intermarriage. As a little girl, it was emphasized that anyone with one drop of negro blood was negro. The thing is, Mexican blood or Indian blood was not quite as frowned upon. (I was born and raised in California ... San Jose for the raising part.) We were thrown together in public schools with all races beginning in kindergarten ... it does affect one's thinking. I was always uncomfortable when it came to blacks and whites. I do not remember seeing anyone dating in my high school days who were mixed like that ... but Mexicans ... yes. God has changed my thinking radically over the last 20 years. Now I see God's plan for His people ... and who His people are. Oh ... to live in those days 100 years ago you mentioned. Yet ... we were born for such a time as this. I think one of the things about all of this that troubles me is that even my own generation has forgotten so much amidst all the propaganda.
I appreciated your response so very much. Very thoughtful ... and well thought out.