Hermann Goring's testimony about the Christian Church

[GermanSaxon]

Posted below is the transcript testimony of Hermann Goring at Nuremberg concerning his viewpoint on the position of the Christian Church and what he believed was Adolf Hitler’s viewpoint on the church in context of National Socialism. With Adolf Hitler dead - he was now viewed as the chief living National Socialist. Though disgraced by Hitler, he defended Hitler and shamed other Nuremberg prisoner's over their abandonment of Adolf Hitler and National Socialism. He also knew of his future fate and was not a broken man as the tortured Rudolph Hess.
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TRIAL OF THE MAJOR WAR CRIMINALS BEFORE
THE INTERNATIONAL MILITARY TRIBUNAL
NUREMBERG
14 NOVEMBER 1945- 1 OCTOBER 1946

PUBLISHED AT NUREMBERG, GERMANY
1 9 4 7

VOLUME IX
OFFICIAL TEXT
IN THE
ENGLISH LANGUAGE
PROCEEDINGS
8 March 1946 - 23 March 1946

DR. STAHMER: Did you know about the development of the attitude of the Party and the State toward the Church, in the
course of time?

GORING: Certainly. But as a final remark on the Rohm Putsch I should like to emphasize that I assume full responsibility for the
actions taken against those people--Ernst, Heydebreck, and several others-by the order of the Fuhrer, which I carried out or passed
on; and that, even today, I am of the opinion that I acted absolutely correctly and with a sense of duty. That was confirmed by
the Reich President, but no such confirmation was necessary to convince me that here I had averted what was a great danger to
the State.

As to the attitude towards the Church- the Fuhrer's attitude was a generous one, at the beginning absolutely generous. I should
not like to say that it was positive in the sense that he himself was a positive or convinced adherent of any one confession, but it was
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generous and positive in the sense that he recognized the necessity of the Church. Although he himself was a Catholic, he wished the Protestant Church to have a stronger position in Germany, since Germany was two-thirds Protestant.

The Protestant Church, however, was divided into provincial churches, and there were various small differences which the dogmatists took very seriously. For that reason they once in the past, as we know, fought each other for 30 years; but these differences did not seem so important to us. There were the Reformed, the United, and the pure Lutherans- myself am not an expert in this field.

Constitutionally, as Prussian Prime Minister, I was, to be sure, in a certain sense the highest dignitary of the Prussian Church, but I did not concern myself with these matters very much.

The Fuhrer wanted to achieve the unification of the Protestant Evangelical Churches by appointing a Reich Bishop, so that there would be a high Protestant church dignitary as well as a high Catholic church dignitary. To begin with, he left the choice to the Evangelical churches, but they could not come to an agreement. Finally they brought forward one name, exactly the one which was not acceptable to us. Then a man was made Reich Bishop who had the Fuhrer's confidence to a higher degree than any of the other •provincial bishops.

With the Catholic Church the Fuhrer ordered a concordat to be concluded by Herr Von Papen. Shortly before that agreement was concluded by Herr Von Papen I visited the Pope myself. I had numerous connections with the higher Catholic clergy because of my Catholic mother, and thus- I am myself a Protestant- had a view of both camps.

One thing, of course, the Fuhrer and all of us, I, too, stood for was to remove politics from the Church as far as was possible. I did not consider it right, I must frankly say, that on one day the priest in church should humbly concern himself with the
spiritual welfare of his flock and then on the following day make a more or less belligerent speech in parliament.

A separation was planned by us, that is to say, the clergy were to concentrate on their own sphere and refrain from becoming involved in political matters. Owing to the fact that we had in Germany political parties with strong church leanings, considerable confusion had arisen here. That is the explanation of the fact that, because of this political opposition that at first played its role in the political field in parliament, and in election campaigns, there arose among certain of our people an antagonistic attitude toward the Church. For one must not forget that such election disputes and speeches often took place before the electors between political
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representatives of our Party and clergymen who represented those political parties which were more closely bound to the Church.

Because of this situation and a certain animosity, it is understandable that a more rabid faction- if I may use that expression in this connection- did not forget these contentions and now, on its side, carried the struggle on again on a false level. But the Fuhrer's
attitude was that the churches should be given the chance to exist and develop. In a movement and a party which gradually had
absorbed more or less the greater part of the German nation, and which now in its active political aspect had also absorbed the
politically active persons of Germany, it is only natural that not all the members would be of the same opinion in every respect,
despite the Leadership Principle. The tempo, the method', the attitude may be different; and in such large movements, even if
they are ever so authoritatively led, certain groups form in response to certain problems. And if I were to name the group which still
saw in the Church, if not a political danger, at least an undesirable institution, then I should mention above all two personages: Himmler on one side and Bormann- particularly later on much more radically than Himmler- on the other side.

Himmler's motives were less of a political and more of a confused mystical nature. Bormann's aims were much more clearcut. It was clear, too, that from the large group of Gauleiter, one or another might be more keenly interested in this fight against the Church. Thus, there were a number of Gaue where everything was in the best of order as far as the Church was concerned, and there were a few others where there was a keen fight against the Church.

I did interfere personally on frequent occasions. First of all, in order to demonstrate my attitude and to create order, I called into the Prussian State Council, as men in whom I had special confidence, a high Protestant and a high Catholic clergyman.

I myself am not what you might call a churchgoer, but I have gone now and then, and have always considered I belonged to the Church and have always had those functions over which the Church presides- marriage, christening, burial, et cetera-carried out in my house by the Church.

My intention thereby was to show those weak-willed persons who, in the midst of this fight of opinions did not know what they should do, that, if the second man in the State goes to church, is married by the Church, has his child christened and confirmed, et cetera, then they can calmly do the same. From the number of letters which I received as the result, I can see that I did the right thing.
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But as time went by, in other spheres as well as this, the situation became more critical. During the early years of the war I spoke to the Fuhrer about it once more and told him that the main concern now was, that every German should do his duty and that every soldier should go to his death, if need be, bravely. If in• that connection his religious belief is a help and a support to him, whether he belongs to this or that confession, it can be only an advantage, and any disturbance in this connection could conceivably affect the soldier's inward strength. The Fuhrer agreed absolutely. In the Air Force I deliberately had no chaplains, because I was of the opinion that every member of the Air Force should go to the clergyman in whom he had the most confidence.

This was repeatedly told to the soldiers and officers at roll call. But to the Church itself I said that it would be good if we had a clear separation. Men should pray in church and not drill there; in the barracks men should drill and not pray. In that manner, from the very beginning, I kept the Air Force free from any religious disturbances and I insured complete liberty of conscience for everyone.

The situation became rapidly more critical-and I cannot really give the reasons for this-especially in the last 2 or 3 years of the war. It may have something to do with the fact that in some of the occupied territories, particularly in the Polish territory and also in the Czech territory, the clergy were strong representatives of national feeling and this led again to clashes on a political level which were then naturally carried over to religious fields. I do not know whether this was one of the reasons, but I consider it probable. On the •whole I should like to say that the Fuhrer himself was not opposed to the Church. In fact, he told me on one occasion that there are certain things in respect to which even as Fuhrer one cannot entirely have one's way if they are still undecided and in need of reform, and that he believed that at the time much was being thought and said about the reorganization of the Church. He said that he did not consider himself destined to be a reformer of the Church and that he did not wish that any of his political leaders should win laurels in this field.

DR. STAHMER: Now, in the course of years, a large number of clergy, both from Germany and especially .from the occupied
territories- you yourself mentioned Poland and Czechoslovakia- were taken to concentration camps. Did you know anything
about that?

GORING: I knew that at first in Germany a number of clergymen were taken to concentration camps. The case of Niemoller was
common knowledge. I do not want to go into it in detail, because
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it is well known. A number of other clergymen were sent to concentration camps but not until the later years when the fight became
more critical, for they made political speeches in the pulpit and criticized measures of the State or the Party; then, according to the
severity of this criticism, the police intervened.

I told Himmler on one occasion that I did not think it was wise to arrest clergymen. As long as they talked in church they should say what they wanted, but if they made political speeches outside their churches then he could proceed against them, just as he would in connection with any other people who made speeches hostile to the State. Several clergymen who went very far in their criticism were not arrested. As far as the arrest of clergy from occupied territories is concerned, I heard about it; and I said earlier that this did not occur so much on the religious level just because they were clergymen, but because they were at the same time nationalists- understand that from their point of view- and consequently often involved in actions hostile to the occupying forces.
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[Staropramen]

Most so-called "clergymen" today belong in concentration camps. Interesting read, thanks for posting!