This Forum is now inactive and has been replaced by a new Christogenea Forum. You may browse here but there are no updated threads or new posts since January 1st 2017. Forum members please see THIS NOTICE for information concerning your account at the new forum.

Overcomers

This forum is for discussions and questions concerning Christian Identity direction, doctrine and debate.

Re: Overcomers

Postby Kentucky » Tue Nov 08, 2016 6:32 pm

Nayto wrote:
Kentucky wrote:http://kinsmanredeemer.com/future-prophecy-part-2

Mark


I agree with the sermon, but the topic seems to be that a reaping is necessary and that it is our work to do so. I'm not sure how it ties in with our ability to identify the tares in the first place.

For the last year or so I have been emphasizing the necessity to develop a racial consciousness; it's time to get racist. Identity Christians should make it a daily habit to identity tares. Practice makes perfect. Currently, we should not be expected to be batting 1000, hitting a home run every time we step up to the plate. But, it is a discipline that should be a prerequisite for reaping when the time arrives. We are in the thick of a race war right now in spite of the blind leading the blind, or should I say color blind. Since I've been in the movement, everybody has always wanted to know when. And the best answer I can provide, is that when that day comes, there will be no doubt about it. So meanwhile, read, believe and obey the Word. Again, "For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit" I Thes. 1:5.

Mark
User avatar
Kentucky
 
Posts: 1803
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:20 am

Re: Overcomers

Postby Nayto » Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:18 am

I've been thinking about this topic a little while and am wondering about the "ye shall know them by their fruits" aspect. When Christ refers to knowing them by their fruits, he is referring to those who are not sheep and those who come from the other, evil tree. In this way we know He is referring to race. However He adds another qualifier to this statement, which is "false prophets" (Matt 7). He seems to be referring to mongrels who are also in the position of prophet. He is also referring directly to the Edomites (Matt 12). I'll quote these verses for reference:

Matthew 12:30-37 wrote:He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.

Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit. O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.


Matthew 12:1-23 wrote:Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Ask, Seek, Knock

Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


As Bill always says, Christ does not say things which are disconnected and we should be careful not to take things out of their context. It is all talk about the connection between two seemingly unconnected but actually inextricable concepts. He first refers to kindness towards our kindred and then He refers to scattering our kindred. Both of these are love of our kindred from two different angels. The entirety of the previous chapter is about love for our kindred and this one continues, except that scattering our kindred is intertwined. In this way Christ matures our understanding in how to properly care for our kindred.

He first says not to judge and be hypocrites which is kindness to our kindred. He then says not to cast our pearls before swine, which is to scatter our kindred. This statement is linked to the ravening wolves later who are known by gathering grapes of thorns or figs of thistles. If you cast your pearls before swine, then you are gathering grapes of thorns and figs of thistles. Christ then moves on to say that we being "evil" (or rather "base" in the CNT) even know what to give our brethren when we ask and with that knowledge we should do to our brethren as we would have them do unto us. Again this is kindness towards our brethren. He adds the extra part about God who has perfect knowledge of what we need that when we ask we will to an even greater extent get what we need over and above, or even different to what we have asked. He elaborates on the concept of scattering by referring to the narrow gate, which is the gate for the sheep or the gate for our race. The wide gate is the gate of another race (John 10:1). He then refers to false prophets specifically, or rather those who want to scatter our kindred in their misguided gathering. This section seems to have a dual meaning. These false prophets are themselves mongrels and are corrupt trees bringing forth corrupt fruit. Therefor we know these mongrels (corrupt trees) by their mongrel teaching (corrupt fruit). By the same token, how do we know what is corrupt fruit? You cannot gather grapes of thorns or figs of thistles! In this we know that the corrupt trees and their fruit in terms of teaching and race only have a place in the lake of fire. Lastly Christ refers to those who do seemingly amazing works in His name, but who have no place in the Kingdom. The point is that if you are a scatterer, no matter how great you think you works were, they were in fact works of iniquity and you have no place in the kingdom. This is corroborated by Matthew 12, where Christ says "He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad." He goes on to speak about the unpardonable sin of the scatterers.

The point I want to make here is that "knowing them by their fruits" is not necessarily as catchall as we think it is. Christ seems to be talking specifically to those mongrels and scatterers who believe that their works are great. He refers specifically to false prophets and to the Edomite Pharisees. He is equipping us against false teaching of scatterers. This knowledge has been applied and resulted in the righteous removal of such scatterers from collaboration with Christogenea. This theme carries on elsewhere in Scripture:

1John 4:1-6 wrote:Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.


Interestingly in this verse from John, he refers to kindness towards our kindred directly afterward thus speaking of it in the same manner as what Christ did. The judeos believe that by this verse if you profess Christ, then you must be of God. I think John chose his words carefully and said "that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh". He did not say that Jesus is the son of God or that He is God in the flesh, but rather that Christ came in the flesh. In this way I think John is referring to Christ's race and by extension the work He did being centered on race. Therefor, if you are teaching anything other than Christ's racial work then you are a false prophet and a scatterer.

2Peter 2:1 wrote:But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.


Peter goes on to talk about mongrelization at length after referring to false prophets, which is corroborated by the words of Christ in Matthew 7. False prophets are inextricably linked to scattering and the teaching of mongrelization! Imagine that.

So we know who the false prophets are because they teach the doctrine of mongrelization and as I say, some have applied this with great effect. The question I would pose is this: Is it enough to know the common mongrel by their fruits? We often say "we will know mongrels by their fruits" but does Scripture truly support this? In the above I have endeavored to show what the fruits actually are which demonstrate a corrupt tree. That fruit is scattering and the teaching of mongrelization. In applying that term "knowing them by their fruit" generally, we actually make it a worthless concept in its subjectivity. What is evil fruit from a mongrel? We know that our own kindred are capable of all manner of sin whether by purposeful evil or by unwitting ignorance. By the same token, a mongrel is capable living a seemingly "good" life and be kind to all around them. So a mongrel might be among us and be kind to all our kindred without us knowing it because they show none of the arbitrary bad fruit in their actions. Later they might seek to teach and expose themselves in their mongrel attitude, but until such a time we just have no idea. Neither can we also tell them by how they look because they have sufficient White genetics or simply because we can't see others on the internet.

It is because of this matter that I suggest moving forward in identifying race seriously, instead of simply "judging them by their fruits", which I think is meaningless in this context. As Christ said, if we know what to give our kindred when they seek of us and are in need, how much more can God give us perfectly what we need? The way I see it, we desperately need a good tool with which to identify mongrels, be it spiritual or physical. In this way we should ask God for that tool that He might provide us with it or something better.
Nayto
 
Posts: 1151
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:06 am

Re: Overcomers

Postby Kentucky » Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:14 pm

Nayto wrote:It is because of this matter that I suggest moving forward in identifying race seriously, instead of simply "judging them by their fruits", which I think is meaningless in this context. As Christ said, if we know what to give our kindred when they seek of us and are in need, how much more can God give us perfectly what we need? The way I see it, we desperately need a good tool with which to identify mongrels, be it spiritual or physical. In this way we should ask God for that tool that He might provide us with it or something better.

Dear Nayto,

I've mentioned several times in my writings that the mongrelly minded is just as much a problem as the mongrel itself. In our attempt to spread the Good News, it is raising the racial consciousness to overcome the evil aspirations of tree grafters i.e. race mixers. To have a meaningful ministry we must discern the spirit to see if they are of God. It's usually not an easy mission unless the individual wantonly identifies with being mixed and is proud of it. Then we can move on to more fertile company. Can the person foresee the results of total mongrelization destroying God's 'kind after kind'? Churchianity teaches us the opposite of what we should do and that is to relinquish judging the racial character of the person in question. And thus we witness the plethora of mindless drones in our midst today, performing the political correctness of Babylon. Being that the New Covenant says the Law is written in our heart and mind, there should be a trace of morality in a supposed brethren. An amoral person should raise red flags. When all we can do for the blind is to plant the seed, when God decides (He chooses) to open their eyes and remove the color blindness, our seed then germinates.

I can give you an example of a letter I received from a prisoner for the first time. Regardless of what any prisoner says to me in the first letter, I send them an introductory packet of information and the rules for receiving literature. But, in his first correspondence to me, he wanted me to send him a Strong's Concordance. Judging by his penmanship, spelling and grammar, he doesn't seem to be at a level to warrant advanced studies. Besides, I can't afford to send Strong's out on request. He told me his birthday is in late November and that he's been "excepted in a non tuition seminary school by mail." He told me "nobody was able to bless me Pastor Downey please sir in Jesus name would you get me one." He said, "Jesus speaks to me in the word... God said if you ask anything in my name you shall get it." I have a number of issues with this kind of request as I'm sure many of you do. We'll see if I ever hear from him again after he gets the intro letter. He may be a very good White man who has his priorities out of order or he may be wasting my time and resources to get mail. The point I'm making is that it does take a little bit of investment of time to know whether a recipient of our message is with the program or not. It's very disappointing when I do invest time in a prisoner and they prove themselves to be broken cisterns unable to hold the water of God's Word. And once we do retain the Good News, it is worthless if it does not grow by properly nurturing the message given to the next brother and the next....

Mark
User avatar
Kentucky
 
Posts: 1803
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:20 am

Re: Overcomers

Postby Nayto » Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:00 pm

Sorry Mark, I was actually addressing what I said generally. I can see how it came across as directed at you specifically. I hope everyone will read it and provide their thoughts.

You're right though and we do the best we can with what we have. In what I'm saying I don't mean to go down a hole of analysis paralysis and never reach out to anyone. I do believe that just because we do the best we can, doesn't necessarily mean that it is enough. For example, the law of enemies being thorns in our sides isn't predicated on our knowledge of them being enemies. We aren't afforded grace because of ignorance. On the contrary, a lack of a love of truth causes delusion. We are only afforded grace when we confess our sins.

I read this article recently which encapsulates part of the essence of what I'm trying to say: http://startingstrength.com/training/a- ... cise-terms

I'll give a quick summary for anyone who doesn't want to read it or doesn't have the time: The title is "A Defense of Precise Terms" and the subtitle is "Getting Beyond Superficial Knowledge". The article talks about how the book Starting Strength, a beginner's guide to strength training, is painfully detailed to the point where most feel like that are in school and can't make themselves read through it. It is wonderfully summarized in the final paragraph.

There are precise biomechanical and physiological terms to be used in your weight training. If you take the time to master them, you’ll know why you do things the way you do. You will find a surprising applicability in other areas for the anatomical terminology you’ve learned. The knowledge you gain from digging in to understand some unfamiliar concepts will powerfully inoculate you against a plethora of charlatans and shysters beclowning the fitness landscape.


I personally have read the book and can attest to how such detailed knowledge has helped me in the gym. I often have people approaching me asking me if I'm on steroids and wonder how much numbers are so high (if only they knew in relation to the potential of someone my height, my numbers are relatively low). Even qualified personal trainers copy my techniques in the gym I go to and I have on more than one occasion warded off their unwelcome advice with sound theory. It's all thanks to the specific knowledge presented in Starting Strength.

These same principles can be applied to Bill's teaching on theology. I remember him mentioning on more than one occasion that some people complain at the level of detail which he goes into. It is the kind of specific knowledge which is needed when we have to give reason for the hope that is within us to others. I'll take the above quote and just change a few words:

There are precise theological concepts to be used in your study. If you take the time to master them, you’ll know why you do things the way you do. You will find a surprising applicability in other areas for the theological concepts you’ve learned. The knowledge you gain from digging in to understand some unfamiliar concepts will powerfully inoculate you against a plethora of charlatans and shysters beclowning Christianity.


What is needed is an attitude of a professional:
Whatever you’re going to do in life, approach it as a professional. A professional has more than a cursory grasp of the details of his profession. A professional has taken the time to learn the precise language associated with the skilled practice of his profession.


In the absence of this knowledge, do we rationalize that by doing the best we can, we are excused of failure? If the law does not excuse ignorance, then we ought to strive for perfection. Just as in spite of our sin we strive for perfection, so too should our attitude be toward wheat and tares. It seems that people hang on to their superficial knowledge and rationalize it to be adequate even though it isn't. Because the challenge of achieving this knowledge, or the challenge of identifying all mongrels perfectly, seems impossible, we simply give up. As mentioned in my previous post, I don't think Scripture supports this attitude of a satisficing outcome.

If we consider logically that judging people by their fruits or spirit necessarily means that we will make mistakes, then we must acknowledge that it isn't good enough. We do our best, but our best isn't good enough. How could we assume that a Biblical principle set forth to equip us to keep a certain law isn't adequate in helping us fully keep that law? Instead what we do is gather what information we can to keep that law as best we can, which is what we have done. But it shouldn't end there!

I fully realize that this is a completely different kettle of fish on the internet and also with a prison ministry as opposed to when you can actually see someone. Again though, it shouldn't be an excuse to be lax in applying the law. To Mark specifically: I have the utmost respect for your ministry and don't mean to disparage it in the slightest. In fact, I don't mean to disparage anyone's honest efforts, but I do mean to call the situation what it is.

Honestly I'm surprised at the resistance to this idea. What harm would it do to ask God to improve our efficacy at identifying tares? What harm would it do to acquire specific knowledge in order to do so, or to ask God to provide this spiritually? At the very worst we would receive nothing and at the very best, God would provide. I always say this same thing to people I discuss CI with, "At the very least, even if you don't believe what I say, earnestly ask God in your own prayers for the truth." In the same way, I think we should all ask God for this knowledge, skill, power or whatever you want to call it. In the same vein, I was speaking to a someone who had just learned of CI and was having trouble with having to deal with mongrels in the work place. I said something along the lines of, "However you choose to deal with the situation, just never rationalize that your tolerance of mongrels is acceptable. You must fight that cognitive dissonance which makes you want to rationalize it as fine." I urge everyone to think the same way. It is a daily struggle to acknowledge where we are lacking and not to see ourselves as perfect. The story of Daniel confessing his sins before having an audience with God's angel always comes to mind (I'll quote the main part, but I encourage anyone reading this to read the whole chapter):

Daniel 9:21-23 wrote:And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God; Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation. And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding. At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.


I'll end this wall of text with a not often quoted parable:

Luke 18:9-14 wrote:And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Nayto
 
Posts: 1151
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:06 am

Re: Overcomers

Postby Teutonic » Tue Nov 22, 2016 3:23 pm

Kentucky wrote: Being that the New Covenant says the Law is written in our heart and mind, there should be a trace of morality in a supposed brethren. An amoral person should raise red flags.


Yes but how do we tell if the immoral person in question is a.) a mongrel, or b.) is actually an Israelite who has been so brainwashed by Babylon that they've lost their moral compass?
Duty, Honour, Sacrifice.
User avatar
Teutonic
 
Posts: 370
Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 7:38 pm
Location: Weimar America

Re: Overcomers

Postby Kentucky » Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:11 pm

Teutonic wrote:
Kentucky wrote: Being that the New Covenant says the Law is written in our heart and mind, there should be a trace of morality in a supposed brethren. An amoral person should raise red flags.


Yes but how do we tell if the immoral person in question is a.) a mongrel, or b.) is actually an Israelite who has been so brainwashed by Babylon that they've lost their moral compass?

There is no guarantee that some White people will ever exhibit a moral compass, in which case the Law will judge them. I said, "there should be," although sometimes there isn't. Perhaps it (the Law within) is so damaged, stymied or stunted that it cannot come to the surface. That is why our commission in this day and age is so imperative. Plant the seed, set the example.

Mark
User avatar
Kentucky
 
Posts: 1803
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:20 am

Previous

Return to Christian Identity Directions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron