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Denying the Divinity of Christ

This forum is for discussions and questions concerning Christian Identity direction, doctrine and debate.

Re: Denying the Divinity of Christ

Postby brucebohn » Fri May 08, 2015 2:58 am

Very patient indeed . She just kept digging that hole!

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"Do you not know that with those running in a race,while all run,
but one takes the prize? In that manner you run, in order that you shall obtain."
1Cor. 9:24
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Re: Denying the Divinity of Christ

Postby Joe » Fri May 08, 2015 4:50 am

The main problem I see is that she thought she could use Scripture to somehow refute other parts of Scripture interpreted plainly and honestly. As Bill said.

I will be honest; I had no idea what she was talking about 90% of the time, it was just too crazy and all over the place.
...and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
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Re: Denying the Divinity of Christ

Postby bahr » Fri May 08, 2015 8:10 am

2ndWitness posts are revealing. We see:

1) the wish to join the pure and the impure,
2) the wish to separate Christ and Yahweh,
3) the wish to separate Israel and the Law.

2ndWitness should address these three wishes to the djinns (or "geniuses"), the jews, who will happily try to grant them (but in vain).

Attacking the supremacy/integrity of Yahweh, that is trying to join the things that He has separated and to separate things that He has joined is the clear strategy of those who hate Him, since the beginning, whatever the tortuous path they follow to reach their goal.
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Re: Denying the Divinity of Christ

Postby Joe » Fri May 08, 2015 8:21 am

^That is a good observation and reflection.
...and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
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Re: Denying the Divinity of Christ

Postby wmfinck » Fri May 08, 2015 9:10 am

Well, the last straw for me was this:

2ndWitness wrote:If you think that your finite mind can understand this mystery which was never even revealed to Paul, then you're ready for the gnostic school of interpretation.


But that garbage comes right out of the "gnostic school of interpretation! 2ndWitness is merely repeating Judaized drivel she learned somewhere else.

To the contrary, Christ expected His disciples to understand:

John chapter 14 wrote: 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?


All the drama was absolutely unnecessary.

The statements she made about the law were worse. When I pointed out that when asked about the commandments that Christ had quoted Moses, this smart-assed remark merited a slap in the face:

2ndWitness wrote:Do you see all 10 commandments listed in that Matthew 19 quotation? I sure don't.


brucebohn wrote:
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Wow, she was contending that the commandments of Christ were in the Sermon on the Mount. But Christ Himself referred to the commandments in Moses. She was basically denying that.

Where the hell does it say "Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself" in the Sermon on the Mount? Wow, all of these things are found in Exodus and Leviticus.

Malachi 4 said wrote: 4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.


I guess she would deny the prophets also. But Christ never denied Moses:

Matthew 8 wrote:4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.


And Christ equated the commandments of Moses with commandments of God:

Mark 7 wrote: 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. 10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:


2ndWitness was a dishonest disputer, rather than a true seeker of truth. We do not need dishonest disputers.

Thank you for your vigilance.
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Re: Denying the Divinity of Christ

Postby Nayto » Fri May 08, 2015 4:45 pm

2ndWitness wrote:I don't even know where to start... I'm a 20-year believer of the Lord Jesus Christ.


Seems like 20 years of brainwashing listed as some kind of credential intended to impress.

Either this character had no idea what they were getting into with CI or they had ulterior motives. Regardless, the attitude was not one befitting a guest. It's kind of amusing how in spite of the condescension it felt like it was a victim in all of this.
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Re: Denying the Divinity of Christ

Postby Joe » Fri May 08, 2015 8:15 pm

Nayto wrote
It's kind of amusing how in spite of the condescension it felt like it was a victim in all of this.


I think it is part of the 'persecution/victim identity'.
Persecuted for her greatness.

Niggers are actually noble creatures who invented everything and founded civilization ...but sadly, the white man persecuted them for their greatness to make it seem like they are dumb worthless apes.

Kikes are actually highly moral creatures who care about social justice and champion humanitarian ideals ...but sadly, they are persecuted for their greatness and that is why they encounter 'anti-semitism' wherever they go.

Sluts are actually funny, smart, selfless, go-getters who never do any wrong ...but sadly, men oppress them and criticize them unfairly ...trying to make it seem like they have are bad.
...and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
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Re: Denying the Divinity of Christ

Postby MichaelAllen » Sat May 09, 2015 12:39 am

Not sure if anyone mentioned this... But one of the things I like to point out to people is Matthew 1:20, "That which is conceived in her (Mary) is of the Holy Ghost." --- So step back and ask, "Who is the father? Is it God the Father, or God the Holy Ghost?" - what's going on here? Well... this passage of scripture is why I ultimately rejected the trinitarianism view, that there are three persons in the Godhead. Paul states that in Christ dwells all the fulness of deity in bodily form.

It's my opinion that the trinitarianist view also helps facilitate the concept of multiple elections. In the Old Testament, we have Yahweh and the people of Israel. In the New Testament we have (universal) Jesus and the (multi-ethnic) church. Whereas, a demand for the recognition that Yahweh and Yahshua are one and the same makes it harder to mystify God's election.

And when we read I Corinthians 10:1-4, we see a very interesting statement. "Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, all ate the same spiritual food, and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ."

Jesus was with Israel in the Old Testament. He told them to invade Canaan. He told them to slay the Canaanites. So when we read passages such as Luke 19:27, "But these enemies of mine which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither and slay them before me..." --- We shouldn't be so surprised to hear something like that.

Then there's the quotation in one of the gospels (I forget where), where Isaiah saw Yahweh high and lifted up in the temple, and it says in the gospel that Isaiah saw Jesus Christ.

No, it doesn't make sense to me, how God can be born of a virgin, and be just as flesh and blood as we are. But without understanding that He was Yahweh in a body, none of us can preach the national restoration covenant message of true Israel.
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Re: Denying the Divinity of Christ

Postby Joe » Sat May 09, 2015 4:45 am

Michael Allen wrote
Then there's the quotation in one of the gospels (I forget where), where Isaiah saw Yahweh high and lifted up in the temple, and it says in the gospel that Isaiah saw Jesus Christ.


I wanted to find-out, I think you may mean this. Isaiah's vision, one passage speaks of Yahweh God and the other speaks of Christ (I of-course think Christ is God).
Isa 6:1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
Isa 6:2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
Isa 6:3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
Isa 6:4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.
Isa 6:5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.
Isa 6:6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:
Isa 6:7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.
Isa 6:8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
Isa 6:9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
Isa 6:10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
Isa 6:11 Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,
Isa 6:12 And the LORD have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.
Isa 6:13 But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof.


Joh 12:35 Therefore Yahshua said to them "Yet a little the Light is with you. Walk while you have the Light, that the darkness may not overtake you, as he walking in the darkness does not know where he goes.
Joh 12:36 While you have the Light, believe in the Light, in order that you may be sons of Light." Yahshua said these things, and having departed hid from them.
Joh 12:37 Now having made so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him,
Joh 12:38 in order that the word of Isaiah the prophet would be fulfilled, which says: "Yahweh, who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of Yahweh been revealed?"
Joh 12:39 For this reason they have not been able to believe, because again Isaiah said:
Joh 12:40 "He has blinded their eyes, and hardened their hearts, that they should not see with the eyes and perceive with their hearts and turn about, that I shall heal them."
Joh 12:41 Isaiah said these things because he had seen His honor, and had spoken concerning Him.
...and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
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Re: Denying the Divinity of Christ

Postby Joe » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:15 am

Another passage that proves Christ is God. And still today there are those who say He was the son of David or a prophet. Or 'some of God but not all of God'. David, being king, had God as his only Master.

Mat 22:42 saying: "What do you think concerning the Christ? Whose son is He?" They say to Him "That of David!"
Mat 22:43 He says to them: "Then how does David by the Spirit call Him 'Master', saying:
Mat 22:44 'Yahweh has said to my Master, sit at My right hand, until when I should place Your enemies beneath Your feet'?
Mat 22:45 So if David calls Him 'Master', how is He his son?"
Mat 22:46 And no one was able to answer Him a word, nor did anyone venture from that day to question Him any longer.

The interesting thing about this passage is where it says 'David by the Spirit' ...in the past our ancestors must have had a much closer connection with God. But I think He still moves us today.
...and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
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