Fornication

[Lang]

Just found out this in one of Bill's articles: "What was Yahweh's act of consummation? Impregnating Mary and coming here as His Own Son". Thats interesting.

[MikeTheAdamite]

I agree that the sex act is what married a couple but didn't joseph describe Mary as his wife in Mathew before the birth of yashua,yet Mary was still a virgin!?
Is it acceptable then, to call a woman one is engaged to-your wife?even though one has yet to sleep with her?

[wmfinck]

When Jesus turned water into wine at a wedding was this event a public display of two people having sex for the first time? I'm engaged in other areas of study at the moment but is there not some biblical basis for a God ordained ceremony of some sort prior to sexual union?

Ordained ceremonies are rituals. Don't tie the actions of life to rituals, or perhaps you should consider whether salvation depends upon one. Period.

Men celebrated a marriage, as we see in Genesis 19:22. But do not confuse the celebration with the marriage itself! Jacob thought the feast was for his impending wedding to Rachel. He ended up marrying Leah.

So did he marry Leah at an altar, or in a bed?

[wmfinck]

Does God have sex (or its allegorical equivalent) with Israel before the Marriage Supper of the Lamb?

Mark

God became "one flesh" with Israel at His conception!

[wmfinck]

Bill, I have read your two links about three times and still don't get it.
Before you think I am a troll or something, let me be clear. I hate race mixing. I do not hate it because of something in the Bible. I just naturally hate it.
But I need something solid to say to WHITE race mixers. Not only that, there are whites who seem to me to give the seal of approval to race mixing even though they don't do it themselves, Like I am thinking of one white guy in particular. (He, a Brit married a Norwegian woman.)
I can't say to him, "Why don't you go to Bill Fink's web site and read it up for yourself." Especially when I can't understand it myself! I can't say Bill Fink has written about 5000 words on the subject.
Bill with respect, can you not produce something in a few words that shows unequivocally that Fornication means Race mixing in the Scriptures? At the moment most people believe it means sex before marriage, and as we know that has no traction today.

Well, if you do not get it, I do not know why. I am about to discuss this topic once again, on the next Pragmatic Genesis installment, which will be Part 12, in connection with Paul calling Esau a fornicator (Hebrews). There is only one reason why Esau could be a fornicator: race-mixing!

At this point I could only advise you to search for "Balaam" or for "fornication" on Christogenea, and find the relevant words on the pages that come up. There are quite a few.

[Kentucky]

I'm not sure if its an answer to Staropramen's question or an argument against my answer. But thats a very good question, lol.

Somewhere in between maybe.

This verse came in mind: "But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit." 1 Cor. 6:17.

I think we need to clarify when something is of the flesh and when something is of the spirit; when something is literal and when something is figurative. I Cor. 6:17 is not suggesting that we are physically joined with God, but rather spiritually. Romans 12:2 gives a good example of how we do that.

What would be the equivalent of sex between God and Israel?

It would be the unity of transforming our mind to the perfect will of God.

Does the "two bodies become one flash" thing applies to the marriage between God and Israel?

What is our body? Is it not the temple of God? Does He not dwell within us?

If the equivalent of sex is Israel giving up on mens tradition, secular doctrines and paganism and accepting God as her husband once again, then the marriage happens exactly at the moment of the "sex".

I don't think so. It is the opposite of Israel "whoring after strange gods" for sure, but it is not an instantaneous wedlock for the individual believer. Why? Because the marriage involves corporate Israel. All of Israel will be saved, but not incrementally. Rather the Marriage is one occasion. The problem of consummating the marriage between Israel and God is that the Bride must first prepare herself (see Rev. 19:7-8 and Rev. 7:14).

Likewise, we should observe the spirit of the Law in regards to morality and marriage. When the Law states various scenarios in Deut. 22, it is not an advocacy for the means in which we marry, but rather a preventative against rampant promiscuity. Deut. 22:28-29 is talking about a young man at the peak of his hormones, sowing his oats, not the procedure in which one finds a wife. The hypothetical situations (of this chapter) are a man finding a damsel in the field and the moral repercussions. The modern equivalent would be something like bar hopping and one night stands. That is not how we find our match made in heaven.

If one thinks sexual intercourse is the standard by which our race culturally consummates a marriage, then they have the cart before the horse. Consummation is defined as "the completion of marriage by sexual intercourse." In other words, a lot more has to happen prior to the physical act. It is the same way with God spiritually; we have to cleanse ourselves in Christ to be worthy. God is not going to remarry the same whore who just came in from the field chasing skirts. To think that sex is the first object of marriage is a devastating impediment to our race advancing the Kingdom. The "if" in Deut. 22:28 is a big IF and will be the Law pertaining to such situations for life; anyone cognizant of this Law should think twice if it pertains to them. On the other hand, in normal Christian liaisons between men and women, to them is given the luxury of time to decide if they want to live with this particular person for the rest of their lives. See the difference? We are not animals in the jungle where the first potential mate we see is advanced upon.

Marriage ceremonies per se are an entirely different subject although intrinsically related, which have become a racial landmark of our people to witness the joy between a man and woman whom God hath joined together, as a covenant and bond for life. This is the ideal order by which our race propagates the will of God:

1. Virgin male meets virgin female
2. A period of courtship (not dating)
3. Permission from the father for the hand of his daughter in marriage
4. The marriage ceremony or wedding
5. The consummation of the marriage (the two become one)


Mark

[Lang]

And what about these verses?

“And Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah’s tent, and took Rebekah, and she became his wife; and he loved her: and Isaac was comforted after his mother’s death.” Gen. 24:67.

“What? Know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? For two, saith he, shall be one flesh.” Cor. 6:16.

“If a man seduces a virgin who is not engaged to anyone and sleeps with her, he must pay the customary and accept her as his wife” (Ex. 22:16).

This is the ideal order by which our race propagates the will of God:

1. Virgin male meets virgin female
2. A period of courtship (not dating)
3. Permission from the father for the hand of his daughter in marriage
4. The marriage ceremony or wedding
5. The consummation of the marriage (the two become one)

Steps 1 to 3 are not marriage, but I agree that its the right order. But I think that 4 should be after 5, as we marry first and celebrate later. I don't think any celebretion would be a step of the marriage, its more of a social thing.

About sexual intercourse, I still think its the marriage. If someone do this to a woman, it should be the ultimate act of love and they should be sure that they are going to live their lives together. If they are not sure of it, they should not have sex. The one-night stand thing is a perversion of the marriage, and the ones who practice it become adulterers.

Ordained ceremonies are rituals. Don't tie the actions of life to rituals, or perhaps you should consider whether salvation depends upon one. Period.

Men celebrated a marriage, as we see in Genesis 19:22. But do not confuse the celebration with the marriage itself! Jacob thought the feast was for his impending wedding to Rachel. He ended up marrying Leah.

So did he marry Leah at an altar, or in a bed?

I agree with this.

[MikeTheAdamite]

Obviously he was so drunk and it was dark in the bedroom.that can be the only explanation for what happened with Leah.
So they married in bed!
Am I pointing out the obvious??maybe

[Lang]

Yeah. I believe that the Leah story is a proof that the marriage happens in the bed, independent of ceremony, because he was forced to stay with her.

[wmfinck]

Marriage ceremonies per se are an entirely different subject although intrinsically related, which have become a racial landmark of our people to witness the joy between a man and woman whom God hath joined together, as a covenant and bond for life. This is the ideal order by which our race propagates the will of God:

1. Virgin male meets virgin female
2. A period of courtship (not dating)
3. Permission from the father for the hand of his daughter in marriage
4. The marriage ceremony or wedding
5. The consummation of the marriage (the two become one)


Mark

Step 4 is nice, but it is our social construct. The Roman Catholic Church first regulated the marriage ceremony, as another "sacrament" for its priest to dispense, thereby attempting to legitimize their asserted authority over men.

I am not saying that there is anything wrong with a celebration of commitment between a man and a woman, and of course that is a healthy endeavour, but to regulate it into a required ritual is wrong. Marriage happens in a bed. Of course, the sexual act should not be partaken of in a wanton manner, and there should be a commitment and an expectation of fidelity before the act is consummated.

I raised Genesis 19 as an example. Think about what happened there. Laban and Jacob had a feast celebrating Jacob's marriage to Laban's daughter. Fine. Jacob thought he was marrying Rachel. In the morning after the consummation and the sun rose, he found himself married to Leah. When did the marriage occur? Jacob had to then work seven more years for Rachel!

In the ancient world, the woman had little, or NO, say in who she was going to marry. There was no courtship/permission from daddy stage, and a virgin man did not "meet" a virgin woman unless daddy introduced him and supervised it all. Instead, marriage was an agreement between a father (or brother, for want of a father) and a suitor.