What to reject and what to keep?

[wmfinck]

Nico, please listen to my podcasts. All 800 of them. That is what it would take to correct some of the gross misunderstandings I am seeing here. One true church with any of those premises? Forget about it. Baptism rituals? Converting non-Whites? Those ideas are anti-Christ ideas. Those ideas are what we must stand against. You may as well be a catholic.

[brucebohn]

Thank you Bill. This is good advice, suggested in the past, but gone unheeded.
Prefer not to deal with foolishness, but some ideas, such as these, must not
be ignored. I would suggest an inexpensive MP3 player that could be utilized
at the gymnasium or on your nature walks... [ for Podcast's]

[NicoChristian]

I do not heed to the idea that mongrels should be converted. The 14 points were written by my deceased friend and his intention was to stop the ridiculous infighting and ego-based quarrels amongst the South African Israelites. The situation in South Africa is somewhat different and there are also a lot of very strange Israelite doctrines, some are or border on blasphemy. I myself am not promoting the 14 points so much as they stand, I do support the idea of a fixed doctrine, but I'm not qualified to make doctrine. I myself am not fixed in my beliefs, one reason is that I've heard a lot of different doctrines from many different C.I. pastors and often am not sure what to believe. At one point I was fully in agreement with Kingdom Identity ministries and Mike Hallimore, I'd say for the most part I do still believe the same, but in more recent years I've resigned not to follow anyone particular doctrine. Things I believed in the past have been said to be false, every single individual I speak to claims absolute and irrefutable truth. I've decided that none of us have absolute truth and that in the end God will decide who is right and who is wrong. I also opt for a more simplistic doctrine, I don't get into tiny details as one person says one thing and one another.

Another example, Bertrand Comparet was one of the greatest C.I. teachers ever, yet nowadays newer C.I. teachers will say he was wrong in one thing or another. Who's to say that the next generation of C.I. pastors will find fault in what we preach? One way or another we know right from wrong and we know basic principles of truth. Once again seems people don't fully understand what I was putting across. I don't pretend to be a teacher, pastor or anything else, it's not my calling. We all have our jobs.

Bruce since you know so much about my recreation time then you should know I don't use mp3 players, it drowns out the sound of nature. What's the matter you old codger, you make fun of me being active, are you too old to be active anymore? Seems for your arrogance and narrow-mindedness you fail to understand what's being said. You form judgements on people you don't know. To be honest I don't care, I don't get or need anything from you.

[NicoChristian]

Nico, please listen to my podcasts. All 800 of them. That is what it would take to correct some of the gross misunderstandings I am seeing here. One true church with any of those premises? Forget about it. Baptism rituals? Converting non-Whites? Those ideas are anti-Christ ideas. Those ideas are what we must stand against. You may as well be a catholic.

I'll put it to you this way. I started off by learning from Kingdom Identity ministries, that's how I learned about Israel Identity. I've always been right-wing, but I didn't understand Israel identity until later. I don't pretend to know everything about the Bible or should I say, I know pretty much the whole Bible, I know what it says, but as I've pointed out even amongst C.I. there are many interpretations. As I said before I've met so many people each claiming absolute truth and I've noticed how the works of previous teachers are now being challenged and 'corrected'.

Personally I'm tired of lots of different teachers, many of them engaging in constant cyber battles and each slandering the other while claiming the others teach pure rubbish. In some cases this is true. I'm looking to learn and correct mistakes. I'm humble and open-minded, but do not swallow anything easily due to the fact that there are so many different people each preaching their own version of the truth.

The question is should I simply abandon everything I've learned from other teachers and follow everything you preach?

I have my personal faith in Christ Yahshua, I strive to live my life according to His teachings. I despise race-mixing, mongrels homosexuality and other abominations. I unfortunately cannot avoid the world always, but strive to do so. I'm not a nit picker, I know Israelite brethren who in your opinion would have ridiculous doctrines. Still I don't nit pick, men always have errors and what may be holy today may come to be ridiculed later. At one point men believed that whatever the Pope said came from God, people still believe it today, but at least that's been proved to be wrong.

To sum it up, sometimes you may think that I'm presenting ideas, but I'm more striving to learn. Despite that I don't appreciate attitude (Bruce). One of the reasons behind the infighting is bad attitude and insults, people claim to be trying to reach out to misguided brethren, not true. It's ego and bad attitude. When I see people on here insulting each other, patronizing or talking down to each other then it's no wonder tempers flare. That's one reason why our movement has for the most part simply gone backwards in recent years, there was probably a time when we were more active and influential, but nowadays we're all confined behind screens just talking about how bad things are.

[Filidh]

nico, i don't believe bruce meant anything insulting at all and he was just offering a suggestion for the podcasts. that's all. so there's no need for the two of you to fight.

regarding your response to my questions:

if we give that which is holy to the mongrels, they'll only use it to turn on us and harm us. thus, it's best if mongrels believe error-filled doctrines such as marxism, darwinism, and nietzscheism, that are doomed to fail, rather than believing in the truth and using it to hurt us.

your attitude to being born again is right in spirit, but your terminology is slightly off. when the kjv and all the other translations that followed its tradition state "ye must be born again", the greek states that "ye must be born from above", which means that you must be born a racially-pure adamite to be saved, as only racially-pure adamites are born with the spirit of father from above. but your concept is indeed correct, that we must also still repent, change our ways, and live by christ's teaching.


for water baptism, remember that it is written by john that "i [john] baptize you in water, but there is one coming after me who is greater than me, who will baptize you with the holy spirit and fire!"

while john himself baptized christ, this is only because christ insisted that he do so, so that all prophecy might be fulfilled. afterwards, baptism is by the holy spirit of christ, which is the worldview of christ. baptism in the holy spirit is being completely submerged in christ's word. the apostles continued baptizing in water for a shortwhile, but later on recognized this and then remembered what was said about baptism in the holy spirit and fire, and then baptized no more with water.


for all of israel being saved, remember that it is written that "all of israel will be saved", and that there are no exceptions for the cleansing lifeblood of christ's sacrifice. christ said "love your brother", he didn't say "only love your brother if he agrees with my word". and he didn't leave it to us to question why certain wrongdoers would still be saved, even if their salvation, which is preservation, includes no reward and they have shame rather than happiness in their preservation. but if you must know why, it's because of love.

------------------

to the rest of ya'll in this thread: nico posted the points as a rough draft, only partially written by him, that's 3-years-old. having a standpoint of unity upon which our spearwall of faith is positioned is good, as together we are strong. it would act as a belief-filter. so remember that this draft is only a draft and still has room for edit, change, improvement, and finalization.

[NicoChristian]

Why can't other people especially Bruce talk like you, it would save arguing. Like I said, if I'm wrong about something I'm willing to review it. It's attitude more than anything that bothers me.

[Fenwick]

The question is should I simply abandon everything I've learned from other teachers and follow everything you preach?

It was Sheldon Emry who always used to insist that people read the scriptures, and not take his word for it.

With that in mind, we shouldn't be "following" any man in particular, but we should listen to the advice and explanations that we are given by those who have more learning in our faith than we do.

The falliability of man being what it is, it's likely that no single CI pastor has ever been completely correct in everything he has ever written. But by studying the scripture ourselves, we can test their assertions and decide for ourselves which is the correct interpretation in any given instance.

From my perspective, most prominent CI pastors past and present agree on the most fundamental beliefs of CI, and that tallies with the Word of God as far as I have understood it.*

The bulk of the disagreements usually concern relatively minor interpretations of scripture, though finding the correct interpretation will always support the fundamental truths. As Mr Finck says, the scripture cannot contradict itself.

So I personally wouldn't worry too much about following the pastor who appears to be the most "right". Treat their knowledge as a resource in your own learning, and don't worry about offending any personalities. A heated debate does not mean they oppose each other.



*This does not include all the random liars and infiltrants whose deviancy masquerades under the CI title.

[Staropramen]

I first came to CI by way of Pastor Thomas Robb, which led me to Stormfront, which led me to folks like Pastor Downey. I then decided to submerge myself in the teachings of Bertrand Comparet and Dr. Wesley Swift. Nico, to the extent that it's possible heed Bill's advice and submerge yourself in his podcasts. He goes into great detail reinforcing and expanding upon the foundational work by Swift and Comparet and at the same time there is clarification in areas where it is needed where these men were wrong such as this 6th and 8th creation concept. Bill, Pastor Mark and others are continually building upon a foundation but it requires alot of time and effort to see this. There are plenty of wolves out there that are working against Christ. If we are not careful it's easy to get confused. Confusion can only be avoided by dedication to study. Alias Eli loves to carry on about how Swift and Comparet taught that Yahweh created the other races as if these men were infallible. I was initially duped by this. I remember quite clearly defending Eli in a Stormfront thread having only a surface acquaintance with Bill's ideas. Pastor Downey pounced on me for my comments and praise Yahweh for that. My respect for him caused me to look at Christogenea more closely and here I am. I sometimes have to listen to certain podcasts dozens of times before I get all the little details in order in my aging brain. I'm astonished at how Bill is able to pull all of this detailed information together during interviews and present our beliefs. Study,study,study,study.......as much as you can. Yahweh bless!

[Kentucky]

It's attitude more than anything that bothers me.

That's it!!! Attitude is just a synonym for spirit. Attitude is everything insofar as the question you pose in what to reject and what to keep. But, we should be careful not to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

I don't know if you tuned in for Bill's 2 programs this last weekend, celebrating 5 years of regular weekly studies, but he asked that I call in and I prepared a little for the show by looking at the suggested themes in this forum: Christian Identity Directions. Your thread here struck a chord with me and so I resurrected it and brought up a quote from you during the show. You said, "A united church would get rid of the problem regarding false Identity pastors who simply self-promote themselves and become a leader without any criteria. Having and a set standard and minimal criteria would get rid of the infighting and false preachers." I knew what you were getting at, but perhaps it was taken out of context or I didn't preface the subject adequately. The reaction was, "But we shouldn't mimic judeo-Christians."

I don't think the inference was a plethora of doctrines, which I wrote about recently in 'The Adoption of Adaptions,' that leads to denominationalism. So I called back during the Saturday program to elaborate the need for simple standards that would alleviate a lot of the unity issues. I used our own church here in Kentucky where we have two premises that are the glue of our fellowship. They are the teachings of the identity of the White race in the Bible and the subsequent study on why jews are not Israel. Everything else is peripheral and not worth the display of having an unchristian attitude.

There are a few spoilers in Identity who create an odious atmosphere by majoring on the minors and minoring on the majors. They are either professional disruptors on the payroll of the enemy or are mentally incapacitated. They are usually full of themselves and their cup of malice, guile and hypocrisy runneth over. Identity should be able to identify this kind of of attitude and reject it as "sowing discord among the brethren." So how do we advance the Kingdom without turning it into a denomination? II Chron. 7:14 and an attitude adjustment! "Ye shall know them by their fruits." Likewise, we are told what the fruits of the Holy Spirit are.

I think we will eventually overcome this adversary from within, but we must first look within ourselves and emulate He who gave His life for us.

Mark

[NicoChristian]

Good posts, Pastor Mark, Staro and the others. I appreciate the advice, when it's put the way you guys do then it's easier to heed to and comes across in a positive way. As you quoted me and said, it's about attitude. A bad attitude makes people argue simply for the sake of arguing, respect begets respect and bad attitude begets bad attitude. Glad you guys understood and I appreciate your responses.