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A Christian Philosophy of Music

Re: A Christian Philosophy of Music

Postby Staropramen » Mon May 05, 2014 7:52 am

Joe wrote:Even without the subliminals, you have to admit that judas priest had lyrics that encouraged suicide. So I guess you are right in that we should focus on what is actually being communicated. Of-course those lyrics were protected by the First Amendment. The dream deceiver's lyrics are pretty creepy as well.

Those kids were influenced by the actual lyrics of the song, I guess the subliminals (there or not) are irrelevant.



I like some of Judas Priest's music. I've never been a fan to the point where I analyzed their lyrics. I often tune out the lyrics if I otherwise like the music. I doubt that their songs encourage suicide. Could you provide some examples? Are you sure you're not hearing lyrics that are telling a story with characters? Cherubini's opera Medea depicts filicide but only a loon would accuse Cherubini himself of advocating the killing of one's children. These judeochristians do the same thing with lyrics that they do with the bible. They take things out of context to suit their fancy.

I blame the parents, not some rock singer.
Last edited by Staropramen on Mon May 05, 2014 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A Christian Philosophy of Music

Postby Joe » Mon May 05, 2014 9:13 am

^I am sure music influences how we feel and think, conversely we are drawn to music which resonates with how we feel and think, so it doesn't need to be about judas priest specifically. That is the point I was making, is that music is manufactured to have that influence, and that that has been going on for a long time (in the case of Mozart I was only pointing-out that Mozart was a manufactured phenomenon).

Beyond the realms of death, better by you than me and dream deceivers lyrics, with the last two being cited in the doco you provided as being an influence.

I cannot post the lyrics here as it would be too long, but the first paragraph of dream deceivers was rather melancholic, as with beyond the realms of death, so I understand how that could have an influence while not being explicit. The documentary you posted said that the boys were influenced by the lyrics and then used these examples, I was only using their example, as an example. They generally won't be explicit about such things, at-least not so much at that time.

The parents are responsible, but sometimes I can understand their error, as they often find it difficult to raise rebellious teenagers these days, especially with such a gigantic influence from mainstream media, schools etc. Some parents find-it difficult to even discern how their children are being corrupted, because the mechanisms of the jew are quite clever ...this is why Hitler ultimately forgave his folk for falling into their deceptions.

I don't listen to judas priest at all and only know them from that doco. I found-out that the lead singer is a homo, so I try to avoid that sort of thing personally. Just as you threw-out all your nigger music, I also avoid music from niggers. I have listened to cover songs, for example, the never ending story on piano, where the original is written by a faggot. This is probably just as bad, it is just that when I see the fag performing, I feel ill. That is all.
...and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
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Re: A Christian Philosophy of Music

Postby Lang » Mon May 05, 2014 12:35 pm

Yeah, I can imagine it getting to the point were it resembles some kind of voo-doo ritual, where niggers dance around to a drum and get possessed by evil spirits. I don't think white people would even realize then, they already perform 'Christian' rap music to appeal to niggers. Evangelicals resemble possessed nigger/voo-doo type rituals.


It indeed resembles a lot. The blacker a church is, the more possessed it seems. I don't know what would be original Christian melody, but I believe classical music and operas are the closest thing to that. I don't discourage good country and rock'n roll music though. I believe all kind of musics can be good as long as it has the "european spirit". Of course, rap, hip-hop and such are automatically eliminated.
"Give a hammer to a white, and he will build civilization;
Give a hammer to an asian, and he will build other hammers;
Give a hammer to an arab, and he will kill his wife;
Give a hammer to a nigger, and he will kill whites;
Give a hammer to a jew, and he will sell it to niggers.
"

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Re: A Christian Philosophy of Music

Postby Joe » Mon May 05, 2014 3:05 pm

Lang I think you are right that the best Christian music comes from the traditions of our people.

I just wanted to add to this thread, and will re-iterate elsewhere if needs be (as this is what got me thinking).
Bill has recently shown to me very sharply that I should discern more clearly between what can be proven with Scripture and what is a result of my mind's workings.

I don't need (and cannot) to prove my own subjective experiences, perceptions or opinions of and about the day, I have nothing to prove and I am not a teacher. I have never contested any of Bill's work nor have I questioned the foundations of CI. Just because I say something does not mean I carry a burden of proof (which is often arbitrary and only used to facilitate debate) or have made a formal claim.

I daydream, I wonder about things. I make shallow assumptions and estimations. Sometimes I investigate further, sometimes I do not. You talk to God as I do?, you see His working in your life, you tell me of it ...but can you prove it. Should I expect that? Is it not natural for us to speak with Him in our minds and to wonder, there are also many things we do not know or have yet to understand and see.

If however I say something that contradicts Scripture than I hope I will be corrected, but I cannot be expected to stand beside something which carries no weight and is natural for everyone to do.

I don't care about judas priests, subliminal messages, WN or modern trivialities; I may say/comment my -immediate- thoughts, but that does not mean I want to debate the issue. The only thing I care to learn more about or investigate is Scripture. And I don't tend to post about that unless I have an inquiry, I never make a contention, sometimes I post what I understood to be true as I seek verification/edification.
...and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
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Re: A Christian Philosophy of Music

Postby ElleJay » Mon May 12, 2014 3:27 am

wmfinck wrote:Funny, Clifton is also writing about music, in his Watchman's Teaching Letter #192, which I just proofread last week. Guessing it will be out the week after I get back from New York.


I just read Clifton's Letter #192 tonight. Although a bit tediously "scientific" with Pavlov's experiments & study of beats and its effects on dogs ... which carries over to people, the further I read the more disturbed I was ... not about the letter ... but the wicked use of it planned with Nikolai Lenin to disrupt society. (I had heard something like this some time ago, but Clifton's letter made a clear case.)

When my children were teenagers, I read books about backward masking and the beat of music and its effects. Mark and Clifton's articles should be must reading. It put things into better perspective for me. I was a senior in high school when we were invaded by the four from England, but music was having an effect before that. We had been sliding down that slippery slope for years ... it just had not become "hard core." Our nation was still culturally, if not actually, Christian.

My Dad played in a country-western band back in the 1940's (before he was drafted), and, I am sure it had some affect, but, by and large, there was still an innocence about most of grass-roots America ... those who listened to the music. For the musicians, there were the same pitfalls there are today, but the 1960's brought in a new era of sexual "freedom" for the groupies ... taking it to the debauched level we see today ... that is promoted by the media at every turn.

Mark is so right about the church music. Back in the late 1970's and early 1980's our family sang with choirs. The music director once played in rock bands. When the orchestra was first brought in, I do not remember drums, but eventually they made their way through the front door ... not for every service. (The choir director was a drummer ... so ... he played them sometimes.) I can still remember the day I thought ... Some of this music is causing feelings within that should not be happening when singing of the holiness of God. I never mentioned it to anybody back then because I thought it was probably just me ... and I felt embarrassed. Eventually ... I changed my tune ... meaning ... I could no longer support that kind of music in a church. Today the music in many churches is truly unholy , as the discussion here makes clear. Some of it troubles me because of the repetitiveness ... like one is doing a chant of some sort ... It makes me weary to sing such songs, and it seems hypnotic to some extent. (I have only visited such churches.)

Speaking of that drummer/choir director, a few years ago I learned about his son who had become a minister. Unfortunately, he "ministers" in an emergent setting. His Dad's music apparently reverted to the rock sound. That was sad news. The senior minister from our church from the 70's-80's was ousted for inappropriate behavior ... and one of the other minister's began a work that was associated with panentheism (not pantheism). I am not saying it was all the fault of the music, but once the slide downward begins, there must be something rotting up the line.

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Re: A Christian Philosophy of Music

Postby Staropramen » Mon May 12, 2014 7:20 am

ElleJay wrote:I just read Clifton's Letter #192 tonight....


Thank you for letting us know that this paper is now available. It's unfortunate that a man capable of such fine scholarship has produced this piece of rubbish. Apparently Clifton is unaware of the well documented fact that not only could the audiences not hear the Beatles at their concerts but they couldn't hear themselves. So the hysteria must have been whipped up by something other than the music. I'm also unaware of any reports of mass hysteria being whipped up from playing Beatles records at home where the music could be heard.

Teenagers, especially teenage girls can be silly sometimes. Let's not make that into something it's not.

He cites examples of trouble at rock concerts the way the media reports on mass shootings. That is, by ignoring the fact the millions of other people listened to rock music and attended rock concerts [or carried firearms/went to the firing range] at the same time and nothing nefarious went on.

I would refer everyone to my previously posted [and reposted] comments in this thread to further put his paper into perspective.
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Re: A Christian Philosophy of Music

Postby ElleJay » Thu May 15, 2014 9:59 pm

Staropramen wrote:

ElleJay wrote: I'm also unaware of any reports of mass hysteria being whipped up from playing Beatles records at home where the music could be hear


I never attended a concert, but I do know the Beatles music stirred up thoughts of lust ... and, not only thoughts ... but it encouraged desires and those desires were definitely not of God. Sin begins by a thought ... and the music of the Beatles and others planted thoughts I never thought of on my own. I would say it was almost hypnotic. Perhaps the music had more affect on females ... it was our standards that needed to fall to open the door to the immorality that the enemies of God needed in order to destroy the culture of our nation ... and it was destructive!!!

I did go to the Filmore in San Francisco ... once ... Janet Joplin and others were there. Druggies were openly smoking pot ... people were laying all over and on each other. I had never seen anything like it. The atmosphere was orgiastic (if that is a word). No one can convince me ... from my experience ... that the music was a benign part of such gatherings.

I remember when Elvis made his debut on the Ed Sullivan show. I was only ten, but with older cousins, and I thought they were silly ... they were screaming and behaving hysterically in their living room. We could hear the music. There was nobody "whipping it up for them ... I suppose you might say the audio of the audience may have encouraged them, but I had never seen such behavior from them before. It took time for them to settle back down when it was over.

Music does have an effect ... and I am sure when one is in a group atmosphere, it does not take but an agitator or two to start things off ... but the music does contribute, whether one wants to think so or not. There is a reason we are only to think on the pure ... the lovely ... etc., and to take every thought captive. Also there is a reason we are to refrain from youthful lusts, and part of that refraining is to keep that music out of our homes.

If one is not a groupie ... there is plenty that can go on in the back seat of a car with music as a stimulant!

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Re: A Christian Philosophy of Music

Postby Staropramen » Thu May 15, 2014 10:47 pm

ElleJay wrote:I did go to the Filmore in San Francisco ... once ... Janet Joplin and others were there. Druggies were openly smoking pot ... people were laying all over and on each other. I had never seen anything like it. The atmosphere was orgiastic (if that is a word). No one can convince me ... from my experience ... that the music was a benign part of such gatherings.


The "free love" scene associated with the 1960's had already happened in Russia 30 years earlier. Long before rock music. I don't dispute that music can be powerful and influential. It can be used for good or evil. My problem is with people that want to condemn certain styles of music as inherently evil, ignorant of a proper understanding of music history or the plain language of scripture which does not condemn rhythm.

While visiting my wife's relatives in Bohemia some years ago I encountered a style of music called cymbalovka. It's essentially polka music but played at a much faster, almost frenzied pace. This music developed over centuries in Europe completely independent of nigger influence. It's their folk music. This business that rhythm in general, or rhythm played beyond a certain speed is evil, from the jungle etc. etc. is just nonsense.

If music has an adverse effect on someone then they should stay away from it. In my company a brother or sister with such issues can feel secure knowing I would do everything possible to not tempt them in this manner. But at the same time I say to these folks please don't take it upon yourself to write papers about subjects that you are biased towards and not qualified to address.
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Re: A Christian Philosophy of Music

Postby Nayto » Thu May 29, 2014 4:06 pm

My mom's husband calls many churches "rock concerts" :lol:

He also aptly pointed out that if people think they are "feeling the spirit" in that worship then they have clearly not attended a Beatles concert because the Beatles then are much better at making their audience "feel the spirit" than the churches.

So true and always cracks me up.
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Re: A Christian Philosophy of Music

Postby Filidh » Fri Oct 17, 2014 5:45 pm

subliminal messaging has gotten so advanced that it's mainstreamed into hobby products now. not even joking.
http://createsubliminalmessages.com/tag/sound-clips/

backmasking is only a small example of subliminal messaging as a whole. it's the one most often pointed out because it's the most ineffective.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=how+to+create ... ubliminals
real name's trevor :-)
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