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Subjective Assumptions underpin Mainstream Genetic Study

Topics Concerning Race and Ancient Man

Re: Subjective Assumptions underpin Mainstream Genetic Study

Postby Filidh » Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:44 pm

yahweh originally made the messengers of heaven, from of whom are the fallen ones that are called the tree of knowledge of good and evil. however, after their fall, they mixed their seed with every kind. thus the perversion of that which was originally good.

wouldn't the word 'evil' in the verse of isaiah you reference be better translated as 'war', 'calamity', 'chaos', and so on, being self-evidenced by viewing the verse as a whole and comparing the analogies, as, light is to darkness as peace is to war, disaster, calamity, and so on? if not, then would it not have been contrasted with good instead of peace?

neither the hebrew word 'rah' nor the greek word 'kaka' necessitate moral-evil, but rather, disastrousness, hence the contrasting analogies of light and dark, peace and disaster.

it isn't suggesting 'evil' in the sense of the binary-moralcode given to us by yahweh, that of good and evil.

if something was already evil, then there would be nothing to pervert it into.

again, open to correction if i'm in error.
real name's trevor :-)
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Re: Subjective Assumptions underpin Mainstream Genetic Study

Postby marc4liberty » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:32 pm

Let me see if I understand you correctly. The "evil one" cannot pervert something into evil unless it is good first? How do you reconcile Isaiah 45:7?


My guess is that the Hebrew word for evil was mistranslated. The Hebrew word in Strong's is 7451. The definitions included in word 7451 includes many possibilities besides evil, for example "calamity" or "trouble."

IMHO, Yahweh does not create evil but he creates man with the capacity for evil through free will.
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Re: Subjective Assumptions underpin Mainstream Genetic Study

Postby Kentucky » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:34 pm

Filidh wrote:yahweh originally made the messengers of heaven, from of whom are the fallen ones that are called the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Is there any Scripture that links the "fallen ones" with "the tree of knowledge of good and evil"?

however, after their fall, they mixed their seed with every kind. thus the perversion of that which was originally good.

The same could be said of Adam and Eve before their "fall" also, correct? They (the fallen ones) mixed their seed with every kind of what... animals?

wouldn't the word 'evil' in the verse of isaiah you reference be better translated as 'war', 'calamity', 'chaos', and so on, being self-evidenced by viewing the verse as a whole and comparing the analogies, as, light is to darkness as peace is to war, disaster, calamity, and so on? if not, then would it not have been contrasted with good instead of peace?

neither the hebrew word 'rah' nor the greek word 'kaka' necessitate moral-evil, but rather, disastrousness, hence the contrasting analogies of light and dark, peace and disaster.

it isn't suggesting 'evil' in the sense of the binary-moralcode given to us by yahweh, that of good and evil.

Yes, you're right. However, the mongrel masses are evil and used of God as a rod of chastisement of which God has foreknowledge of the good and evil.

if something was already evil, then there would be nothing to pervert it into.

My point exactly, which man has no difficulty in doing all by himself.

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Re: Subjective Assumptions underpin Mainstream Genetic Study

Postby Kentucky » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:49 pm

marc4liberty wrote:
Let me see if I understand you correctly. The "evil one" cannot pervert something into evil unless it is good first? How do you reconcile Isaiah 45:7?


My guess is that the Hebrew word for evil was mistranslated. The Hebrew word in Strong's is 7451. The definitions included in word 7451 includes many possibilities besides evil, for example "calamity" or "trouble."

IMHO, Yahweh does not create evil but he creates man with the capacity for evil through free will.

#7451 comes from #7489, which means to spoil (lit. to break in pieces) fig. to make (or be) good for nothing i.e. bad (physically, socially or morally). This would seem to fit the curses of Deut. 28 when Israel disobeys and God brings forth His wrath, often times in the form of human adversaries. We inherited a propensity for sin from our original parents, but it wasn't through the agency of free will. I used to think that we had free will, but it begs the question of who is in charge: God or man? "Thy will be done" is the only will there is, because God is sovereign. We only have the illusion of a free will. Here's why: http://kinsmanredeemer.com/FreeWill.htm

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Re: Subjective Assumptions underpin Mainstream Genetic Study

Postby marc4liberty » Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:43 am

Great sermon, Mark. I am humbled by the depth of your thoughts on free will. I haven't completely digested what you wrote, so I'll have to read it and study it a few more times.
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Re: Subjective Assumptions underpin Mainstream Genetic Study

Postby bahr » Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:07 am

In my opinion, it is vain to talk about "free will". Why? Because the expression itself cause confusion.

First, you have the word "free". Are we "free"? In what sense exactly? Free to do what? Yes, we are free to do certain things, but not others. I can decide to go shopping or to stay at home this morning, but I can't decide to go to the moon. Does Yahweh choose what I will do for me in this precise context? Is He using a magic wand or a "spiritual lightning"? No, He is not acting like that. Besides, every living organism possess a certain capacity to choose. Even an amoeba possess the capacity to choose to go left or right. Perhaps we could call this capacity "micro-freedom" or something like that.

Secondly, the word "will". What is "will"? What is "I"? "I" am the result of my ancestors and of the society around me, which is itself the result of all History, since the beginning. So, each action of my part could be seen as the result of all these interrelated things, but it is so complicated that I could never hope to comprehend the entirety. And apparently the vast majority of the people don't even think about these concepts once in their life.

Yes, in a sense, "free will" is an illusion IF we aren't fully conscious about the organic nature of the creation and if we act AS IF these organic relations didn't exist at all, as ignorant, egostistic and humanistic individuals. But thanks to the Word of our Father, as Christians, we can see through much of the illusions of this world, and if we act according to the will of Yahweh, then our personal will becomes the will of our Father, like the will of a particular cell in a healthy body is the will of the body itself: a participation, a communion, the healthy economy of the whole household.
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