List of Impossible Beliefs Held by Judeo Christians

[marc4liberty]

Staro,

I posted Clifton's WTL 131 and he has not responded. I think he gave up. If I hear from him again I'll try your suggestion.

[Staropramen]

Staro,

I posted Clifton's WTL 131 and he has not responded. I think he gave up. If I hear from him again I'll try your suggestion.

Doubtful you will hear from him unless he humbles himself and accepts the truth.

[Kentucky]

"Christians do not hope for a rapture, which is based mostly upon a misunderstanding of Paul's words in 1 Thessalonians chapter 4. Here the words of Christ are clear, and Christ is clearly coming to us on earth, we are not ascending to Him. Rather, Christians pray with the hope that they are able to withstand the judgement coming upon the earth when Christ becomes manifest."

Clifton's site had many results too, a more in-depth explanation is available if you read from WTL 131 (he explains Bill's translation of 1 Thessalonians chapter 4).

Staro,

I posted Clifton's WTL 131 and he has not responded. I think he gave up. If I hear from him again I'll try your suggestion.

As far as I know, Clifton has never posted in this forum. I didn't understand what you meant by "Clifton's site had many results too." Results of what?

Staroperaman - "Doubtful you will hear from him unless he humbles himself and accepts the truth."

I must have missed something. What does Clifton have to humble himself about?


Oh! sorry, I just figured it out; you're not talking about Clifton, but rather the judeo

Mark

[Joe]

Kentucky said:

As far as I know, Clifton has never posted in this forum. I didn't understand what you meant by "Clifton's site had many results too." Results of what?

Clifton's site has many papers, starting at WTL 131, that discuss the 'rapture'.

[Staropramen]

Kentucky said:

As far as I know, Clifton has never posted in this forum. I didn't understand what you meant by "Clifton's site had many results too." Results of what?

Clifton's site has many papers, starting at WTL 131, that discuss the 'rapture'.

Thanks for pointing that out Joe. I'll have to take a look at those.

[marc4liberty]

He did respond. This guy (Michael Surwin) has an extensive resume. His mother founded the EWTN network. He has a website. Here is the section where he defends his theory of the rapture: http://www.bibleproventrue.com/page_vii ... uprapiemur

If you want to follow the entire FaceBook discussion, I think you can find it at this link:

https://www.facebook.com/jason.hommel/p ... omments=35

Jason Hommel started the thread. He is an ardent rapture believer and defender.

As you will see, he refers me to his website to document the comparisons and differences he mentioned between the rapture and the second coming. I haven't started reading his website yet. It is quite extensive. I anticipate that his arguments will be easy to refute. I have already refuted all of his other scriptural references on the FaceBook thread. It is just a matter of finding the time to read his website and then document my refutations.

Based on his extensive resume, I think Michael Surwin is probably a very influential Catholic and possibly even a priest. I don't anticipate ever being able to change his mind regarding the rapture. My main goal is to refute his arguments so strongly that others who may read this FaceBook thread may be persuaded.

Please feel free to post your own comments on the FaceBook thread. I need all the help I can get. I also look forward to any comments you provide on this forum.

[Staropramen]

I don't have a Facebook account.

[marc4liberty]

For those of you who don't have a FaceBook account, here are copies of his latest responses:

My web site has a section devoted solely to the Rapiemur/Rapture/"Caught Up"/ Harpazo 1Thes 4:17."We will be 'Caught up' to meet the Lord in the air!" In Greek "Caught up" is"Harpazo". Other very clear Rapture verses are: 1Cor15:50, John 14:1-7, Luke 21:36, Philippians 3:20-21, Rev 3:8,10, Matthew 21:34-36, 1Thes1:10, Isaiah 26:19-21, Malachi 3:17, John 11:25-26, Rev 11:12, 1 Thes 5:9, 2 Thes 2:7, Jude 1:14, Titus 2:13, Romans 5:9, Gen 5:24, Heb 11:5, II Kings 2:11-18, etc.. Jesus told us when THE RAPTURE would be near! Yes, He said that the Generation that sees Israel re-born Will NOT pass away! So May 14th 1948+70 years (Psam 90 tells us avg. live 70 years "then we fly away") =2018 or less! Hebrew Yr 5777 starts August 31st 2016 >>>Simple calculation for EXACT date for re-birth of Israel found in Bible! Read about this and many more amazing facts at: www.There is Proof.com !!! Remember in John 14:1-3 Jesus said, "In My Father's House there are many mansions/dwelling places". "If it were not so I would have told you". "I go to prepare a place for you so that where I AM, YOU, may also be"! Jesus told all Christians that if we follow Him we will " ' Escape ' these things coming upon the world" (Luke 21:36). Escape is "Ekphuego" in the Greek and means "to be taken out of time and place". Also did you know? 1413=1413 ??? YES! John 14:1-3 = 1Thes 4:13- . Again, please check out all the above scriptures for total proof that the Harpazo is NEXT!!! Be "Rapiemur" "Caught Up" 1 Thes 4:13- Ready !!! Learn about Thousands of Amazing Proofs and many fantastic Revelations at: >>> http://www.BibleProvenTrue.com

Did Jesus Say Anything About The Escape? You Better Believe He Did!!! And He Said It Plainly!!! So Listen To His Words!!!
Catholics have told me they don’t believe in the Evacuation because Jesus never talked about it. But is that really true?
For one thing, Paul talked about the Escape and he got his information from Jesus. When he was on the road to Damascus Jesus appeared unto him and said, “rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in which I will appear unto thee” (Acts 26:16). Jesus commissioned Paul to witness to what he had seen and what he would see in the future. Some might say Jesus didn’t reveal the Rapture to Paul in the future, but there is overwhelming evidence that he did.
We find that in Paul’s words to the Thessalonians when he said, “But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words” (I Thess 4:13-18). Notice that he said he was speaking “by the word of the Lord” (verse 15). He is saying this teaching on the Rapture is a direct revelation from Jesus. He made a similar claim about the gospel he preached (Gal. 1:11-12).
Then, there is that conversation that Jesus had with Martha when He raised Lazarus from the dead. Our Lord said, “I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die” (Jn. 11:25-26)? Deceased believers (the dead in Christ) will live or be raised from the dead. And the living believers will never die (will be changed. And both will be caught up or Raptured in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye (I Thess. 4:17; I Cor. 15:51-52).
Those who think Jesus didn’t talk about the Rapture are on shaky ground. He proved that He can raise those who are dead and buried when He raised Lazarus (Jn. 11:42-43). And the fact that Enoch was translated without dying (Gen. 5:24; Heb. 11:5), and Elijah went up without dying (II Kings 2:11), and Paul was called up into the third heaven (II Cor. 2:2-4) proves that God can do that. In fact, “with God all things are possible” (Matt. 19:26).

The Upper Room Discourse and the Rapture Texts Match!!! 1413=1413
WOW!!! REVELATION!!! 1THESSALONIANS 4:13 = JOHN 14:1-3 WOW!!! 1413=1413!!! GOD HAS INSPIRED THE NUMERICAL TEXT SYSTEM/JOHN 6:66 IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE!!! (In this text John writes that those poor disciples no longer would follow Jesus!)
Studying in the middle of the night we were blown away to discover that the Rapture which was first revealed by Christ the night before His crucifixion in John 14:1-3, (Part of The Upper Room Discourse of John 13-17) just happens to point us to 1Thes 4:13 of the exact same numbers & theme, where Paul begins to tell us about the Rapture mystery!!! These most beautiful words of Jesus' teachings the night before His death, provides the Catholic Church with powerful TRUTHS! And Yes, The Rapture of believers is one of these powerful TRUTHS included in Christ's last minute disclosure! (That we may be where He is!)
Comparing John 14:1-3 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13 we see amazing parallels! The obvious fact that John 14:1-3 is a rapture reference is supported by the progression of words and thoughts when compared to Paul's more extensive rapture passage (1 Thess. 4:13-18). This is exactly what Christ said in the Upper Room Discourse! Jesus said that He would introduce them to items the night before His death and later when the Holy Spirit would come He would expand upon them more fully.
Read these passages again prayerfully and you may see the obvious, that the words are almost an exact parallel! They follow one another in both passages in exactly the same order! Only the righteous are dealt with in each case! There is not a single irregularity in the progression of words from first to last! Both scripture passages take the believer from the troubles of earth to the glories of heaven!
In light of comparing Scripture with Scripture, it appears obvious that Jesus' teaching in John 14:1-3 and Paul's revelation in 1 Thessalonians 4:13 speak of the same event-the Rapture of the Church! How else does one explain the progression of eight specific words/phrases in exactly the same order, in two different passages, by two different spokesmen? It is clear that these passages refer to a single future event — the Rapture of the Catholic Church Believers & those of other separated Believers! Yes! We learn that the Catholic Church's blessed hope was first revealed by our Lord on the eve of His crucifixion to His disciples as they grieved over His departure. Later, the doctrine of the Rapture was explained in greater detail via Paul's revelation to give comfort to the Thessalonians who were faced with a similar problem of departing loved ones that Jesus dealt with in the Upper Room with His disciples. Now, 2,000 years later and all around the world, today's Catholic Church can be comforted by the hope that in the next moment of time we could be face-to-face with our Lord, in the Father's house, via the Rapture of the Church. May it occur today! Maranatha!!! Maranatha!!! Maranatha Lord Jesus, Yeshua!!!
Parallels between 1 Thess 4 and John 14:

1 Thess 4:13-17 ~ John 14:1-3
that ye sorrow not ~ Let not your heart be troubled
For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again ~ ye believe in God, believe also in me
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord ~ if it were not so, I would have told you
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven ~ I will come again
caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air ~ and receive you unto myself
and so shall we ever be with the Lord. ~ that where I am, there ye may be also.

As you can see, he is persistent and a "true believer" in Satan's deception. I need all the help I can get, not to change his mind, but to persuade others as to the fallacy of his arguments.

[Staropramen]

For those of you who don't have a FaceBook account, here are copies of his latest responses:

My web site has a section devoted solely to the Rapiemur/Rapture/"Caught Up"/ Harpazo 1Thes 4:17."We will be 'Caught up' to meet the Lord in the air!" In Greek "Caught up" is"Harpazo". Other very clear Rapture verses are........

13 Now we do not wish you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who are falling asleep, in order that you would not be grieved, and just as the rest who have no expectation. 14 For if we believe that Yahshua had died and rose up, in this manner Yahweh also through Yahshua will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep. 15 For this we say to you by word of the Prince: that we, the living, those left remaining until the coming of the Prince, no way would come before those who have fallen asleep; 16 because the Prince Himself with a command, by a chief messenger’s voice and with a trumpet of Yahweh shall descend from heaven, and those dead among the number of the Anointed shall rise up first. 17 Then we, the living who are remaining, at once with them shall be carried off in clouds for a meeting with the Prince in air, and in that manner always with the Prince we shall be. 18 So encourage one another with these words.

V1 Now concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need to be written to you, 2 for you yourselves know thoroughly that the day of the Prince comes as a thief in the night. 3 When they say ‘Peace’ and ‘Security’, then suddenly destruction comes upon them, even as a labor pang to her who is with child. And by no means shall they escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should surprise you as thieves. 5 All of you are sons of light and sons of day; we are not of night or of darkness. 6 So then we should not sleep as the rest; rather we should be alert and we should be sober. 7 For those falling asleep, by night they fall asleep, and those getting drunk, by night they get drunk. 8 But we being of day should be sober, putting on a breastplate of faith and love, and a helmet: an expectation of deliverance. 9 Because Yahweh has not ordained us for wrath, but for the acquisition of preservation through our Prince Yahshua Christ, 10 who died on behalf of us, that whether we would be alert or we would sleep, together with Him we would live. 11 On which account you encourage one another, and you build up one another, even just as you do.

What I read in these passages, minus judeo miscalculations based on ignorance of who's who in the scripture, is a picture of Christ marshaling the troops of Israel both dead and alive for the destruction of every plant that Yahweh did not plant. Period.

Daniel 9;

"25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

The "last week off in the future" doctrine is the result of not knowing who is who in scripture. The "people of the Prince" are the Romans who descended from the Trojans who were formerly Israelites. Judeos are so evil they claim the Prince of Daniel 9:26 is antichrist rather than Christ! The Romans [lost Israel/people of the Prince] destroyed Jerusalem as a judgement on the Edomite jews in AD70. Christ confirmed the covenant with true Israel and in the midst of the last week of Daniel He was crucified causing the sacrifice and oblation to cease.

The passages above make it clear that the judgement of Yahweh on that place is DESOLATION, "even until the consumation". The current mafia state of Palestine is NOT Israel regathered but rather it is what is described here in Malachi;

1 The burden of the word of the Lord to Israel by Malachi.

2 I have loved you, saith the Lord. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the Lord: yet I loved Jacob,

3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

4 Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the Lord of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the Lord hath indignation for ever.

The Edomite, rat-faced kike bastards are in Palestine attempting to rebuild that desolate place. Don't they do so by claiming to be impoverished and bilking the US for millions each year? And what are these judeo christian-zionist crazies doing? Instead of loving their own people as commanded by Yahweh they are showing more concern for God's enemies as verse 2 so clearly demonstrates! How many White people have you met that question the very existence of God because of the so-called "holyhoax" of the kikes during WWII? True Christians should understand that we owe the kikes a holocaust! The last week of Daniel was completed shortly after the crucifixion of Christ. As such there is no extended period of time between Christ's marshaling of the troops of Israel [1 Thes.4:17] and the ensuing extermination of all the non-white trash. Amen.

[marc4liberty]

Thanks, Stero. I posted another reply on FaceBook that says basically the same thing.