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Jake Cheek

Examples of White, and especially White and Christian, entertainment - that we can still create art and music without the schlock of the jews and negroes and other aliens.

Jake Cheek

Postby Michael » Sat May 18, 2013 4:22 am

Maybe I'm wrong, but from what I know of Greek, I think the term "Molon Labe" often quoted these days should be pronounced "Molon Lavee". I know in Russian the word used to entice someone to throw for catching something is "lavee". And Russian being close to Greek I expect this word comes from the original used in this term, as the term is meant to mean "come and get it". Anyway, this is a nice song, with the meaning clear, no matter that the pronunciation may not be accurate. We all understand the intended meaning, and it is right!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 2qtonYzPIw
Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Matthew 7 16-19 KJV
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Conan, the Varvarian? LOL

Postby wmfinck » Sat May 18, 2013 3:55 pm

If the numerous ancient transliterations from Hebrew to Greek, Greek to Latin, Latin to Greek, and later Latin and/or Greek to English and/or German are any indication, then the Greek "B" is a "B", and not a "V".
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Re: Jake Cheek

Postby learningaboutCI » Sat May 18, 2013 4:29 pm

I was just now making a start on Greek, and in seeking some pronunciation guidance I hit upon this video.





I am certainly keeping an open mind.

I haven't watched the OP video.
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Re: Jake Cheek

Postby wmfinck » Sun May 19, 2013 8:14 am

Michael,
It is clear that in transitions from one language and people to another throughout our history, certain sounds have changed slightly, and that this is manifest when two languages share the same word. F/V and V/B are two examples. V/W (U) is another. Did Caesar say Veni, Vidi, Vidi, or did he say Weni, Widi, Wici?

learningaboutCI,
It is admitted by scholars that nobody really knows what ancient Greek sounded like. There were also different dialects, even within Koine Greek. The Greek "ss" was a "tt" in Attika, but Attika was never Assika elsewhere.

I butcher the pronunciations of a lot of English words, never mind Greek. However I have tried to abide by the pronunciation guide found in Strong's Concordance. That one makes the most sense to me of any I have seen.

In prison, a friend I spoke to almost daily once brought a "Greek" to talk to me about pronunciation. It seems that many of the vowels (except the omega and omicron and sometimes the upsilon) and combinations thereof (some including the omicron) were basically pronounced like an "e".

He did not like it when I told him that I thought modern Greeks must have gotten such a scheme from the Turks. I could not believe that the Greeks would have four vowels and several dipthongs that all sounded the same (alpha, eta, epsilon, iota), and maybe even a fifth (upsilon). And then several sounds which we are accustomed to are wanting.

Somehow, I do not think that modern Greek can tell us how ancient Greek was pronounced. The same can probably be said for much of modern and medieval English.
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I just watched the video. While it is more accurate a representation than the memory I repeated above, it is not far off (if there was anything about dipthongs, I did not see it). The video has three vowels all sounding like a long "e". If it discussed dipthongs, I am sure it would assert that a few of them including the "a" would also sound like a long "e".

I do not think I could be convinced, without documentary evidence, that in ancient Greece 3 vowels and a few dipthongs all sounded like a long "e".

I also do not think I will be convinced that several of those consonant sounds are original, without documentary evidence.

But all of this and more is exactly why scholars still debate over what ancient Greek sounded like. I would bet that modern Greek would be to them like ebonics.
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Re: Jake Cheek

Postby learningaboutCI » Sun May 19, 2013 11:11 am

Excellent points. Now that you mention it, I did notice that in various pronunciation videos, the claim is always that there are a lot of "ee" sounds! Ascribing that to an adverse racial influence is probably spot-on.

All of this fits a pattern of gradual loss of complexity. Mastronarde says that "Ancient Greek had a tonal accent or pitch accent, not a stress accent such as is found in Latin, English, and many European languages, including Modern Greek" (p. 16, first ed. of his basic textbook). While the video I posted says "οι" is as good as "ee", Mastronarde says that "οι" ought to be like "boy" or "coin". He also says that "η" should be like the French "tête", not a simple "ee" sound. I'll increase the font a bit so it's easier to notice the letters.
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Re: Jake Cheek

Postby learningaboutCI » Sun May 19, 2013 1:58 pm

I'm just nosing through Teach Yourself Ancient Greek (Betts & Henry), and on page 2 they write:

The letters θ, φ, χ are not double consonants; the pronunciation given above ['th' as in thing, ph, and 'ch' as in loch] is that normally used today but in the Greek of our period they were pronounced as t, p, k with an accompanying emission of breath....


This is in Mastronarde as well. They have the same material regarding classical vowels and consonants.

Betts & Henry also have the point about pitch.

Accent in classical Greek was one of pitch, not of stress as in English. An English-speaker, when told that ανθρωπος human being is accented on its first syllable, would naturally pronounce that syllable with a heavier emphasis. A Greek, however, instead of emphasising the α, would have pronounced it at a higher pitch and so given the word what we should consider a somewhat sing-song effect.


Today, Swedish is the only European language (or one of very few) with a distinct sing-songy aspect. This BBC page says that of Norwegian as well.
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