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Greetings from Amsterdam

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Re: Greetings from Amsterdam

Postby EzraLB » Wed Apr 13, 2016 10:22 am

Adam88 wrote:One day I was looking for racism in the Bible on the internet and it brought me to a Dutch Christian Identity website. This was the step to other CI movements.


That's interesting, Jan--could you provide a link to that Dutch CI website? I still have some friends in Flemish-speaking Belgium, and it would be valuable to be able to provide them with that link.

You didn't translate John 3:3 for us, unless I missed it--I'm fascinated how a Dutch speaker would understand it to mean.

Out of curiosity, could you also translate Philippeans 2:14? This is a verse about racial purity, and I was wondering if it has that sense in Dutch:

14 Doet alle dingen zonder murmureren en tegenspreken; 15 Opdat gij moogt onberispelijk en oprecht zijn, kinderen Gods zijnde, onstraffelijk in het midden van een krom en verdraaid geslacht, onder welke gij schijnt als lichten in de wereld...

Thanks!
"No Rothschild is English. No Baruch, Morgenthau, Cohen, Lehman, Warburg, Kuhn, Kahn, Schiff, Sieff or Solomon was ever born Anglo-Saxon. And it is for this filth that you fight. It is for this filth that you murdered your Empire. It is this filth that elects, selects, your politicians." -- Ezra Pound
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Re: Greetings from Amsterdam

Postby wmfinck » Wed Apr 13, 2016 12:32 pm

Adam88, welcome to the Christogenea forum.

I was really only being sarcastic when I implied that the Dutch translation of the New Testament was based upon the King James Version. The sarcasm stems from an idea which is held by many English speakers, that the KJV is the perfect and only valid translation of Scripture.

EzraLB wrote:You didn't translate John 3:3 for us, unless I missed it--I'm fascinated how a Dutch speaker would understand it to mean.

Out of curiosity, could you also translate Philippeans 2:14? This is a verse about racial purity, and I was wondering if it has that sense in Dutch:


I never expected to find support for my own translations of the New Testament from the translations of Scripture in other languages. That is because I would rather expect to find that Christians of all languages were infected by the same universalist doctrines and worldview of the Roman Catholic Church, which Protestantism never repaired. Wycliffe and Luther translated Scripture long before the King James Version was created, yet even they reflect general Roman Catholic universalism.

Even the brightest minds never break out of the worldview in which they were educated. For that reason we have Kevin MacDonald, E. Michael Jones, Michael Raphael Johnson, all intelligent men who have portions of truth and never come all the way.

Look at the wake-up call that Paul of Tarsus required.

So the Geneva Bible translators, seeing the hypocrisy of the Roman Church, discovered that ecclesia referred to the assembly of the people, not the Church as an institution, and they translated it as congregation. But they did not rectify their translation much more than what had to do with their differences with Rome, and since all Refromers did not even view those differences alike, we ended up with Lutherans, Presbyterians, Methodists, and Episcopalians.

In my humble opinion, the Christogenea New Testament is the only translation to start with a clean slate - there are no denominational doctrines it cares to uphold. It is based on the meanings of the Greek words reflected in the secular Greek writings and presented in lexicons used by secular translators for the translations of those writings. Therefore it strives to reflect how everyday Greek speakers understood the language, rather than Medieval churchmen.

Of course, there are purposeful departures for the names of God and Christ. One reason for this is that it is asserting a claim to an inheritance in the Old Testament in direct opposition to the claims of the Jews. Nothing pisses the Jews off more than that, and it is the plainest way to make that assertion. We are not Christians because Jesus gave us the inheritance formerly promised to worshippers of Yahweh. Rather, we are Christians because Yahweh is and always was our God, and Yahshua came to redeem us from our sins.

Being a Roman Catholic, or a (re-)former Roman Catholic, one simply cannot translate the New Testament correctly, since first, one does not have the whole picture to even comprehend what the book is saying, and second, the Romish doctrines created to gloss over what the book is saying will always be a stumbling-block.

Just my opinion, as to why the translations of the New Testament in other European languages are probably going to be just as wrong as the King James or the slightly better Geneva Bible.
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Re: Greetings from Amsterdam

Postby Adam88 » Wed Apr 13, 2016 4:40 pm

EzraLB wrote:
That's interesting, Jan--could you provide a link to that Dutch CI website? I still have some friends in Flemish-speaking Belgium, and it would be valuable to be able to provide them with that link.

You didn't translate John 3:3 for us, unless I missed it--I'm fascinated how a Dutch speaker would understand it to mean.

Out of curiosity, could you also translate Philippeans 2:14? This is a verse about racial purity, and I was wondering if it has that sense in Dutch:

14 Doet alle dingen zonder murmureren en tegenspreken; 15 Opdat gij moogt onberispelijk en oprecht zijn, kinderen Gods zijnde, onstraffelijk in het midden van een krom en verdraaid geslacht, onder welke gij schijnt als lichten in de wereld...

Thanks!


This is the link to the website: http://zebulonenissachar.com/
He changed his website and It does not look so good anymore. His ideas are also not proper. I met him one year ago and he was talking about speaking in tongues and his vision on the Jews seems to come from the British Israel movement.

I actually dont have experience with translating bible verses but I will do my best.

John 3:3 from Dutch to English: the same as the King James.

Tomorrow I will try to translate Philippeans 2:14. I takes more time then I thought.
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Re: Greetings from Amsterdam

Postby andersonone » Wed Apr 13, 2016 7:22 pm

Adam88 wrote:
andersonone wrote:Welcome Jan. How did you find your way to christogenea.org?


One day I was looking for racism in the Bible on the internet and it brought me to a Dutch Christian Identity website. This was the step to other CI movements.

1 year ago I started with Pastor Peters because the website of William Finck was not easily accessible. Then not a long time ago I saw in the google results Christo genea sitemap and only from here I can look things up on the website of William Finck.

The first article I read from his website was unity and divisions and I started with listening to his podcasts.
I realized that studying his works demands time and patient. You have to do it step by step. But I already discoverd that Finck s work is consistent and eye opening.


Awesome. Yes i have dound finks work to be extensive...more extensive and researched than anything i have ever read actually. Another thing i like about CI is that it offers an explanation for things that science and reoigion typically argue over. Every bit of evidence and history can be analyzed without fear. Biblical, non biblican, science, myths, mythology...everything that has been written is considered and weighed against the truth. Its incredible and i love it.
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Re: Greetings from Amsterdam

Postby Adam88 » Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:11 pm

EzraLB wrote:
Out of curiosity, could you also translate Philippeans 2:14? This is a verse about racial purity, and I was wondering if it has that sense in Dutch:

14 Doet alle dingen zonder murmureren en tegenspreken; 15 Opdat gij moogt onberispelijk en oprecht zijn, kinderen Gods zijnde, onstraffelijk in het midden van een krom en verdraaid geslacht, onder welke gij schijnt als lichten in de wereld...

Thanks!


Again, I have no experience with translating things. The words I have chosen corresponds in my opinion to the Dutch words as how we use them.

14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings, 15 that ye may be blameless and sincere, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and pervers race, among whom ye shine as lights in the world.

Sincere=oprecht

Noteworthy is that in an Afrikaans(white south african language) etomology dictionary the word oprecht(sincere) means :

1 eerlijk=sincere
2 Van suiwer bloedlyn, nie van gemengde afkoms= of a pure bloodline, not of mixed origin.

The Dutch language is very similar to the white South African language.

Here is the link to the website: http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/oprecht

Race= geslacht

Geslacht absolutely means family or race in the Dutch language.
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Re: Greetings from Amsterdam

Postby wmfinck » Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:46 pm

So the South African lexicon substantiates my assertions concerning Philippians 2:15 based upon the Liddell & Scott Greek-English lexicon. But in the context of the word meaning race, the Dutch translators still could not bring themselves to render the word properly, where it is actually referring to unmixed blood.

Oh, would Paul not say such a thing? :o

Thanks for answering EzraLB's query.

www.etymologiebank.nl_2016-04-14_14-51-05.png
Screenshot of Dutch etymology website page for OPRECHT
www.etymologiebank.nl_2016-04-14_14-51-05.png (318.14 KiB) Viewed 2605 times


translate.google.com_2016-04-14_14-53-12.png
Screenshot of Google Translate version into English (which would not come complete for some odd reason).
translate.google.com_2016-04-14_14-53-12.png (283.48 KiB) Viewed 2605 times
Last edited by wmfinck on Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Greetings from Amsterdam

Postby matthewott » Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:58 pm

Welcome to Christogenea Jan!

Adam88 wrote:
andersonone wrote:.
The first article I read from his website was unity and divisions and I started with listening to his podcasts.
I realized that studying his works demands time and patient. You have to do it step by step. But I already discoverd that Finck s work is consistent and eye opening.


I completely agree. His and Clifton's work, IMHO, is unparalleled today in it's field. There are a few others out there who do well, but the scholarship involved in the work here is more extensive and factually valid than any others that I have studied. The only 'problem' with work such as theirs is...where do you start? And where can I find the foundational knowledge for the understanding of this lesson, or that lesson? Indeed, my brother, time and patience are the key components to ANY true scholarship. CI can never be explained in soundbites and memes 8-)
For the Word of Yahweh is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Heb. 4:12
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Re: Greetings from Amsterdam

Postby Gaius » Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:26 pm

Adam88 wrote:Sincere=oprecht

Noteworthy is that in an Afrikaans(white south african language) etomology dictionary the word oprecht(sincere) means :

1 eerlijk=sincere
2 Van suiwer bloedlyn, nie van gemengde afkoms= of a pure bloodline, not of mixed origin.

The Dutch language is very similar to the white South African language.

Here is the link to the website: http://www.etymologiebank.nl/trefwoord/oprecht

Race= geslacht

Geslacht absolutely means family or race in the Dutch language.


Very interesting etymology, Jan. Dank je wel.
Just to clarify (perhaps more for visitors) that Bill's translation reads --

14 Do all things apart from murmuring and disputing, 15 that you would be perfect and with unmixed blood, blameless children of Yahweh in the midst of a race crooked and perverted - among whom you appear as luminaries in the Society ...


http://christogenea.org/CNT/epistle-philippians
What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
(Romans 8 v 31)
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Re: Greetings from Amsterdam

Postby LouisianaMan » Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:04 pm

Welcome to he Forum Jan. God Bless you!
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Re: Greetings from Amsterdam

Postby Joe » Fri Apr 15, 2016 6:59 am

Welcome Jan and thank-you very much for your efforts, this really is a gem. Your study must be complicated by the fact that English is not your first language. I really am glad you found your way here despite this.

Noteworthy is that in an Afrikaans(white south african language) etomology dictionary the word oprecht(sincere) means :

1 eerlijk=sincere
2 Van suiwer bloedlyn, nie van gemengde afkoms= of a pure bloodline, not of mixed origin.
...and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
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