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2 Esdras

Old Testament religious discussion apart from Biblical history

2 Esdras

Postby Nayto » Fri May 17, 2013 3:37 am

I've been reading the Septuagint lately and I have a version with 2 Esdras in it. I see this isn't in the translation on the ecmarsh website. I saw direct references to Christ insofar as it actually says "Christ". I'm assuming it comes from "annointed", but I thought that was only a characteristic of Greek, not Hebrew. I have always been under the impression that direct references to Jesus are non-existent in the OT/Septuagint.

My question is, what is the validity of 2 Esdras? Should I be trusting it?

Quick comment: Tobit is a really nice story. Read it if you haven't already.
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Re: 2 Esdras

Postby IdentityChristian » Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:56 pm

The Septuagint is the Old Testament that Jesus used, so it is good enough for me.
My edition has only Esdras, no 2 Esdras. Therefore I would be extremely leery of using it.
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Re: 2 Esdras

Postby Nayto » Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:51 am

IdentityChristian wrote:The Septuagint is the Old Testament that Jesus used, so it is good enough for me.
My edition has only Esdras, no 2 Esdras. Therefore I would be extremely leery of using it.


Exactly. The versions I've seen only have the first one and given the fantastical nature of the second's content it made me a little more suspicious.
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Re: 2 Esdras

Postby wmfinck » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:45 pm

The book in question is known as 2 Esdras from its placement in the King James Bible Apocrypha. The image attached is from The Apocalypse of Ezra (II Esdras III - XIV) Translated from the Syriac Text, with Brief Annotations by G. H. Box, M.A. It was published by the Society for Promoting Christian Knowledge, London, in 1917. My copy is a reprint from Sacred Truth Ministries (see http://stm.christogenea.org). The image is from one page only. There is a much longer introduction accompanying the book, which is really only a booklet of not quite 120 pages.

Many parts of The Apocalypse of Esdras do not ring true to me. Examples are the Leviathan/Behemoth analogy in chapter 6, what I see as a false Messianic Prophecy, because of its inaccuracy, in chapter 7, and the "nine-and-a-half tribes" statement in chapter 13. These are examples, and I have other issues with the book. The good point of the book is it's perspective that the promises and inheritances are exclusive to the people of Israel alone. However because of what I see as some false prophecies, I distrust the book and discount it as canon.

Like I am persuaded to think of some other apocryphal books of Scripture, it may be that this book was at one time true, but going through many permutations was distorted.

In the image presented here, the phrase "our Bibles" refers to the King James Version including the Apocrypha, and by "Oriental Versions" are meant Syriac, Ethiopian and Arabic versions of the book which existed at the time of this translation.
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Re: 2 Esdras

Postby wmfinck » Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:50 pm

The Latin version of 2 Esdras, found in an appendix to the Vulgate, was the most popular among Christians and contained additional chapters at the beginning and end.

2 Esdras is not found in the Septuagint, mostly because no Greek manuscripts of it survive, although apparently at one time they existed.

Because of the different way which academics number these books, 2 Esdras is in part called 4 Esdras, or the Fourth Book of Ezra, by scholars.
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Re: 2 Esdras

Postby Nayto » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:24 am

Having a look through this again, I must say that I agree with the inconsistencies you mentioned.

However I am fascinated by the analogy of the Earth being a womb having to produce the full number of our race over time. This doesn't seem to be a common theme in Scripture, except that Christ uses harvest metaphors.

In Matt 9:37 He refers to the harvest in present terms, so that does not align with the interpretation in 2 Esdras. Seems like a loose use of the metaphor and not any kind of "official" parable.

In Matt 13:30 He refers to the harvest in a broader scale of time, referring to as early as the creation of Adam and the final harvest. This supports the view of 2 Esdras. A harvest is done when it is ready and this is the case in Christ's parable. In verse 39 He explains it clearly.

Revelation 14:15 seems to be referring to the same parable as mentioned above.

So is the parable of harvest 2-dimensional in this way? Given the criticism of 2 Esdras its views seem to merely be hearsay in the proverbial court of Scriptural interpretation, but Christ's parable could imply the same thing. Not saying it necessarily does.
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