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From Whence Cometh Abel?

Old Testament religious discussion apart from Biblical history

From Whence Cometh Abel?

Postby Zenas » Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:30 pm

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Genesis 4
1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. 2 And she again bare his brother Abel.

On the surface, this KJV translation seems to indicate that "Adam knew [had sexual relations with] Eve his wife, and [as a result] she conceived, and bare Cain. And Abel.

This English Standard Version is not much different:

1Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, saying, "I have gotten[a] a man with the help of the LORD." 2And again, she bore his brother Abel.

There is no Scriptural record of Cain having descended from Adam, as there is no recorded mention of Cain being in Adam's lineage. It would appear, from Genesis 3 and I John 3:12, Cain is "of" Satan, the Enchanter's seed.

And, if I am not mistaken, neither is there a record of Abel descending from Adam.

Several questions:

1. Did Eve conceive Cain from Satan and then conceive Abel from Adam - superfetation - and then give birth to Cain and Abel at the same or close to the same time? [This must be what happened]

2. Is Abel of Adam's seed? If so, why is there no mention of Abel being of Adam's lineage recorded in the Bible? Or is there and [unlikely] I just don't see it?

edit: To answer my own question, Abel died with no offspring, thus Adam's lineage starts with Seth, and that fact is why there is no mention of Abel as Adam's seed.

3. If Abel is not Adam's seed, whose seed is he?

4. If not Adam's seed, then Satan's? If Satan's, then how did Abel know to offer an acceptable sacrifice, much less be a "keeper of sheep?"

5. Further, if Abel is not Adam's seed and not, in some way, Satan's, then whose seed is he?

6. Lastly, why is Abel considered "innocent?" If he is innocent, then he must not have come from Satan. And if he did not come from Satan's seed, and not from Adam's seed, whose seed did he come from? [Question #3 above]

7. [There is another question, but not related to this topic, that is, If Cain is of Satan, how can Eve say she "has gotten a man [Cain] with the help of the Lord?"


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Re: From Whence Cometh Abel?

Postby wmfinck » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:16 pm

Dear Zenas,

The points you raise here are good. However I believe that we cannot properly interpret Genesis 4:1 at all, primarily because, as even some “mainstream” Old Testament commentators have professed, the Hebrew of the verse as we know it is corrupt. If indeed the Hebrew is corrupt in the first place, how then can an accurate translation be made? This is explained by Clifton Emahiser in his paper The Problem with Genesis 4:1. In that paper, Clifton also shows how various interpreters of the verse, specifically the scribes who wrote the Aramaic Targums, attempted to complete it and that therefore shows that they understood that it was a gloss.

Personally, I believe that Abel must have been Adam’s son, because his sacrifice was accepted (Genesis 4:4; Hebrews 11:4, 12:24), and because he was considered to be righteous (Matthew 23:34; Luke 11:51). Additionally, Seth was a replacement for Abel. This concurs with your own answer to your second question.

One other scripture indirectly proves that Abel was the son of Adam:
Jude 14: “And Enoch, seventh from Adam, prophesied to these saying…” Now if Enoch was “seventh from Adam”, those seven could only be Abel-Seth-Enos-Cainan-Mahalaleel-Jared-Enoch.

Concerning the matter of conception, it is clear that superfetation is a possibility, as even certain recent events have attested. I can offer this: there is a case of superfetation described in the writing of Hesiod, a Greek poet of the 7th century BC, in his Shield of Heracles, lines 45-55, which show that the ancient Greeks also knew that superfetation was possible. I believe that the Greeks, many of whom were Israelites themselves, got the idea from the Genesis account, or similar stories handed down from it. I will include the lines from Hesiod below.

The Bible is, I believe, the inspired Word of Yahweh (God). But it is not the complete account of all history! It tells us what we need to know, and we are left to figure out a lot for ourselves, or in some cases simply admit that we cannot possibly have all of the answers. I accept the Word on its face – after checking the manuscripts and the translations – and if Yahshua Christ called Abel “righteous”, that is good enough for me, to accept that he is the son of Adam.


Hope this helps,
Bill

Hesiod, Shield of Heracles, lines 1- 55, The Loeb Classical Library, Translated by Hugh G. Evelyn-White:


Or like her who left home and country and came to Thebes, following warlike Amphitryon,-even Alcmena, the daughter of Electryon, gatherer of the people. She surpassed the tribe of womankind in beauty and in height; and in wisdom none vied with her of those whom mortal women bare of union with mortal men. Her face and her dark eyes wafted such charm as comes from golden Aphrodite. And she so honoured her husband in her heart as none of womankind did before her. Verily he had slain her noble father violently when he was angry about oxen; so he left his own country and came to Thebes and was suppliant to the shield-carrying men of Cadmus. There he dwelt with his modest wife without the joys of love, nor might he go in unto the neat-ankled daughter of Electryon until he had avenged the death of his wife's great-hearted brothers and utterly burned with blazing fire the villages of the heroes, the Taphians and Teleboans; for this thing was laid upon him, and the gods were witnesses to it. And he feared their anger, and hastened to perform the great task to which Zeus had bound him. With him went the horse-driving Boeotians, breathing above their shields, and the Locrians who fight hand to hand, and the gallant Phocians eager for war and battle. And the noble son of Alcaeus led them, rejoicing in his host. But the father of men and gods was forming another scheme in his heart, to beget one to defend against destruction gods and men who eat bread. So he arose from Olympus by night pondering guile in the deep of his heart, and yearned for the love of the well-girded woman. Quickly he came to Typhaonium, and from there again wise Zeus went on and trod the highest peak of Phicium: there he sat and planned marvellous things in his heart. So in one night Zeus shared the bed and love of the neat-ankled daughter of Electryon and fulfilled his desire; and in the same night Amphitryon, gatherer of the people, the glorious hero, came to his house when he had ended his great task. He hastened not to go to his bondmen and shepherds afield, but first went in unto his wife: such desire took hold on the shepherd of the people. And as a man who has escaped joyfully from misery, whether of sore disease or cruel bondage, so then did Amphitryon, when he had wound up all his heavy task, come glad and welcome to his home. And all night long he lay with his modest wife, delighting in the gifts. of golden Aphrodite. And she, being subject in love to a god and to a man exceeding goodly, brought forth twin sons in seven-gated Thebe. Though they were brothers, these were not of one spirit; for one was weaker but the other a far better man, one terrible and strong, the mighty Heracles. Him she bare through the embrace of the son of Cronos lord of dark clouds and the other, Iphicles, of Amphitryon the spear-wielder-offspring distinct, this one of union with a mortal man, but that other of union with Zeus, leader of all the gods.
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