On Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:47 pm:
mackdog wrote:I was going over Genesis again to try and get a good idea about these events and understand the Judah line better. Now, its clear that only one of Judahs' 3 cannanite children (Er,Onan and Shelah) survived, and that the surviving one (Shelah) had no children, but JUDAH actually got Shelas wife Tamar (presumably an Israelite) pregnant by accident. One can assume that Shelah either did not survive much longer, or simply did not have children. The part that I'm confused on, is when it says in Gen. 38:8-10. " Then Judah said to Onan, sleep with your brothers wife, perform your duty as her brother in law, and produce offspring for your brother. But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his, so whenever he slept with his brothers wife, he released his semen on the ground so that he would not produce offspring for his brother. What he did was evil in the Lords sight, so he put him to death also." The part I'm confused about is, WHY was Yahweh angry that the cannanite son did not produce offspring for him. Why did Yahweh not see the cannanite son as evil in the first place for existing?
Being new to this forum, I've been going over a lot of posts and came across the above. I know this was made about 4 1/2 years ago. It caught my attention because this was one verse that also confused me at one time. My "understanding" of the event is:
Onan was a product of a woman (Shuah) of a forbidden lineage, Canaanite (Gen 38:2; Deut 7:1-6). None of the Laws of God were given to forbidden lineages. God gave His Law only to Israel as a nation (Psalms 147:19-20), and that Law was kept by the physical father of Israel, Abraham (Gen 26:5). Abraham passed this Law on to his offspring (Gen 24:2-3, 37; 28:1).
God said a Canaanite could never enter into the congregation of Israel (Deut 7:1-6). Yet, here we see Judah, a son of Israel siring sons through a forbidden lineage. It seems Judah didn't seem to care if he corrupted the lineage of Christ as he chose a wife for Er, Tamar (Gen 38:6) obviously of the proper lineage, else she wouldn't be in Christ's physical father, Joseph's line (Gen 38:24-29, Mat 1:3).
We're told God killed Er because he was "evil" (Gen 38:7). The word translated "evil" in that verse is the Hebrew word "ra." It can be and has been translated many other ways. Almost all of them not good. It could be "harmful", "affliction", "grievous" or just plain "wrong" as it is so translated in Judges 11:27 in the KJV. The BDB says this can be applied morally. I see Er as being morally or genetically wrong because of his lineage. Since he was a product of a forbidden marriage, I think this would make him morally wrong as a husband for Tamar. I see God destroying Er BEFORE he can mate with Tamar. This would be God preserving the purity of Christ's line.
Then we see Judah attempting to apply God's Law of bringing up seed to a brother in an illicit union (Gen 38:8). Gen 38:9 seems to be the verse that is causing a great misunderstanding. The KJV translates it thusly:
KJV Genesis 38:9 And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
This verse seems to say Onan went in unto his brother's wife but practiced some sort of birth control so as to not impregnate her. Then the next verse seems to say God was angry because he didn't fulfill the "raising up of seed" to his brother and killed him too.
But this presents a dilemma for those of us who understand that this would make God double minded in that He would be condoning the breaking of His own Law against the Canaanites. Not to mention it would make impure the lineage of Christ's mother's husband, Joseph. This would mean Mary would break Deut 7:3. This would make Christ's half brothers and sisters part Canaanite. To us CI such a thing simply can't be.
I think verse 9 is improperly translated. Here is the literal Hebrew and it's definition with Strong's numbers in its order of Gen 38:9 taken from the BHS:
H3045 yada` (to know), H209 'Ownan (son of Judah), H3588 kiy (particle indicating causal relations of all kinds), H3808 lo' (a prim. particle, not (by impl. no), H1961 hayah (to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass), H2233 zera` (seed), H1961 hayah (to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass), H518 'im (a prim. particle; used very widely as demonstr., lo!), H935 bow' (to go or come), H413 'el (a prim. particle, prop. denoting motion towards), H802 'ishshah (a woman), H251 'ach (a brother), H7843 shachath (to decay, i.e. (caus.) ruin), H776 'erets (to be firm; the earth), H1115 biltiy ( prop. a failure of, i.e. not), H5414 nathan (to give), H2233 zera` (seed), H251 'ach (a brother).
It seems this verse can be read as "Onan (H209), knowing (H3045) surely (H3588) that it should not (H3808) come to pass (H1961) that he give (H413) seed, (H2233) continued (H1961), nevertheless (H518) to come (H935) toward (H413) the wife (H802) of his brother (H251) to corrupt (H7843) the nations or Israel (H776), not (H1115) to give (H5414) seed (H2233) to his brother (H251).
If you will notice the word "nations" is from the Hebrew word "erets" (H776) which is usually translated "ground" or "earth." However it can be and has been translated "nations" (Isa 37:18). You will notice in that verse that the word "nations" pertains to Israel. It is also translated "ground" thus causing the translators to think Onan "spilled" his seed on the ground. Gen 38:9 is the only verse in the Bible where Strong's H7843 (shachath) is translated "spilled."
In my understanding of this event, this would make sense, since God had destroyed one Canaanite from corrupting the Holy Lineage, He would surely do it again. What Onan did that displeased God was to make an attempt to destroy God's Holy Lineage and therefore His people. I contend that this event is exactly the opposite of what it's translated in the English translations.
What, to me is baffling is that Judah was so stiff necked, the death of two of his sons didn't perturb him from disobeying God. He still was going to give Tamar to his third illegitimate son, Shelah (Gen 38:11). The rest of the story tells of how Tamar had to trick Judah into impregnating her. Judah had to acknowledge Tamar was more righteous than he (Gen 38:26). Another example of God insuring the continuity of Israel's race.
What think ye?
Meggie