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Was Jesus God? Rev 1:8 - "the Alpha and the Omega"

A Place For the Naysayers to Dispute the Truth, Because Only a JEW Would Deny That Yahshua Christ IS God!!!

Was Jesus God? Rev 1:8 - "the Alpha and the Omega"

Postby ADLmostwanted » Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:39 pm

In Rev 1:8, Jehovah God is called "the Alpha and the Omega", in Rev 22:13, Jesus is also called "the Alpha and the Omega"


Scholars are not clear what the phrase "alpha and omega" really means. It cannot be translated literally sense neither Jehovah or Jesus are Greek letters :) The best explanation is from E.W. Bullinger who stats: the pharse "is a Hebraism, in common usage among the ancient(Hebrews)" which simply meant the beginning and end of something. Its meaning is NOT limited to the most absolute sense, that being the beginning and end of time. The phrase if applied to Jesus means he is the beginning and the end of something, such as the christian church for example. Jesus can be the beginning and end of something, and so can Jehovah/ Yahweh, and for that matter... we all can be alphas and omegas.

So, just because the bible refers to both Jesus and God the Father as alpha and omega does not mean they are the same being.
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Yahshua IS Yahweh: The Alpha and The Omega

Postby wmfinck » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:22 pm

Yahshua IS Yahweh: The Alpha and The Omega:

History and Archaeology are one thing. We can all determine what it was that was recorded in times past by perusing the ancient records, or we can all dig things out of the ground and evaluate them by their characteristics and their provenance . Modern books written for those purposes have a general utility. Yet to counter my theology with someone such as Bullinger is quite another thing: I have no esteem for him, and therefore I do not even consider his statements as any source of authority – for anything. It is rather well known that the man was a close personal friend of the Kenite zionist Herzl and many other jews, and so therefore his words have no authority whatsoever among true Christians as far as I am concerned: his interpretations are little but apologetics for devils. Bullinger was an embracer of devils and anti-Christs, and his doctrines prove that out. They were formed so as not to offend his devil friends, and surely that is why his books are so prevalent on the shelves in the Religion section of so many bookstores today, right alongside those of his fellow devil-aspirant, Cyrus Scofield. I must say, with my tongue planted at least partially into my cheek, that you have therefore soiled this forum by citing such a whore as if he was an authority.

It is clear to me that Yahweh, telling us that He is the “beginning and the end”, tells us that He is the Creator and the sole determinant of the fate of everything which has been created. When you began this debate with me, I deferred by linking in a post here to a PDF file at Christogenea.org containing many of my own collected notes on this topic for your inspection. Among those notes were the following scriptures:

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

Isaiah 48:12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

Revelation 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

Revelation 1:17-18 17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Revelation 2:8 8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.


The devil-worshipping Bullinger and his Dispensationalist fellows never fail to devise ways to corrupt the clear message of Scripture. Here it is clear that Yahshua Christ, being the Beginning and the End along with Yahweh, must therefore be Yahweh Himself come in the flesh. People who are aware of the jewish subversion of Christianity should choose their sources more carefully, for here is one more Scripture, which defines the use of the word “beginning” for you in this context, putting the devil-worshipping Bullinger’s doubting disputations to rest:

Revelation 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;


These are, according to the apostle, the words of Yahshua Himself. Yet the Book of Genesis does not record any creation of Yahshua, except for the promise of the Tree of Life found at Genesis 3:22, which most Christians would agree is a prophecy of the coming of Yahshua. It is clear to me, that Yahshua considers Himself the “beginning of the creation of God” because Yahweh, in His absolute foreknowledge of all things, had already known before the beginning of the creation that He would come here on our behalf as one of His Own children, which is Yahshua Christ. This is how Yahshua is called in prophecy both the root (Yahweh Himself) and the branch (one of His Own creation): Because He IS Yahweh!

Here we will see that the truth of this is also evident elsewhere in Scripture, aside from those places which I have mentioned already here and in my other posts concerning this topic.

First let me state, that the word Genesis itself also defines “beginning”, because that is what the word actually means in Greek, an origin or a beginning. So when Yahweh states that He is the “beginning”, or when Yahshua states that He is the “beginning”, this is certainly what he was referring to: existence even before the world was framed (to borrow a title line from Wesley Swift).

Now we will see that Yahshua connects Himself to that very creation described in Genesis.

John 8:58 (CNT): “Yahshua said to them: “’Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I am!’”

Luke 10:18 (CNT): “And He said to them “I beheld the Adversary falling as lightning from heaven!”


The only way that either of these statements could be true, is if Yahshua were Yahweh Himself. Abraham’s life certainly predated the advent of Christ by 2,000 years. Furthermore, it is evident from certain interpretations of Genesis Chapter 3 and the Book of Enoch, along with other apocryphal literature, that the Adversary fell even before the creation of Adam. Yet both of these examples may be dismissed by sophists as if having another meaning. So I will introduce a third, this time from Yahshua’s words as they are recorded at Matthew Chapter 13:

Matt. 13:37-43 (CNT): 37 And responding He said: ‘He sowing the good seed is the Son of Man; 38 now the field is the world, and the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom. But the tares are the sons of the Evil One, 39 and the enemy who sows them is the False Accuser, and the harvest is the consummation of the age, and the reapers are messengers. 40 Therefore just as the tares are gathered and burn in fire, thusly it shall be at the consummation of the age. 41 The Son of Man shall send His messengers, and they shall gather from His kingdom all offenses and those creating lawlessness 42 and they shall cast them into the furnace of fire. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth! 43 Then the righteous shall shine forth like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He having an ear must hear!’”


The “good seed” could only have been planted in the Garden of Eden, in the first and second chapters of Genesis, which means “beginning”. Yahshua Christ Himself was the planter, as He accredits Himself here in Matthew’s gospel. Yahshua Christ IS Yahweh come in the flesh! (The enemy is the serpent of Genesis Chapter 3).

Yahshua Christ is indeed Yahweh. Period. As I said in my post yesterday, that is my reality, and you cannot change it. Don't tread on me if you can't see it (or share it). You surely won't change my mind. Again, this short paper does not reflect the whole of my arguments, many of which I have presented in answer to the others of your posts here, and many of which I have not yet gotten to present.
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Re: Was Jesus God? Rev 1:8 - "the Alpha and the Omega"

Postby ADLmostwanted » Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:30 pm

I don't like Bullinger's Jew loving, dispensationalism either. But even a broken clock is right twice a day. The "Alpha and Omega" references in the bible don't equate Jesus with God. It was a common figure of speech. They both can be the beggining and the end of diffenent things.
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Re: Was Jesus God? Rev 1:8 - "the Alpha and the Omega"

Postby sschm » Sun Sep 06, 2009 1:35 am

I agree with you about Bullinger. I mainly use on-line material when studying. I own the Companion Bible. It is acceptable for us to analyze the material of foolish Bible researchers, because we know what is hot and what is not. I mainly only have this Bible for the KJV translation, and I believe this Bible helps to correct some of the errors in it. Anyone serious about knowing the truth will attempt to prove what they choose to believe. Many "Christians" have been involved with devil worship. Bullinger also worshiped the "Jews," so to view him in any high regard would be "satanic."
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Re: Was Jesus God? Rev 1:8 - "the Alpha and the Omega"

Postby wmfinck » Mon Sep 07, 2009 12:15 am

ADLmostwanted wrote:I don't like Bullinger's Jew loving, dispensationalism either. But even a broken clock is right twice a day. The "Alpha and Omega" references in the bible don't equate Jesus with God. It was a common figure of speech. They both can be the beggining and the end of diffenent things.


If it was a common figure of speech, I never read it in the following writers:
Homer, Hesiod, Herodotus, Aeschylus, Euripides, Thucydides, Aratus, Diodorus Siculus, Strabo, Polybius, Procopius, Josephus, Callimachus, Apollonius Rhodius, Caesar, Livy, Tacitus, Xenophon, Pindar, and a bunch more I have read but cannot even remember right now! How was it so common? Or are you only repeating Bullinger?

Yahshua called Himself "The beginning of the creation of God", as I quoted above, but which you did not even address. You reproach your own source and give vague conjectural arguments! Yahshua defines the "beginning"! The prophecy also defines the "end"! It is obvious to me, that you are simply being obstinate for obstinacy's sake.
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Re: Was Jesus God? Rev 1:8 - "the Alpha and the Omega"

Postby ADLmostwanted » Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:54 pm

Ok, so you are well read in Greek, I get it. My original point stands. The "Alpha and Omega" expression is obviously symbolic and there is more then one possible interpretation. One logical alternative expanation is the one I already mentioned, that Jesus is the beginning and the end of "something". That something could be many things besides the beginning and end of all creation. It doesn't mean Jesus was God. That interpretation doesn't fit with the rest of the bible.
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Re: Was Jesus God? Rev 1:8 - "the Alpha and the Omega"

Postby wmfinck » Fri Sep 25, 2009 3:21 pm

So, you admit denying the words of Christ, and it is that simple. Christ said, as I posted above, that He is "The beginning of the creation of God". Here you virtually deny it, and the last time I posted it (even further above) you ignored it. That adds up to one thing: you, being a Christ-denier, expose yourself as a jew! How do you feel now, jewboy?
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Re: Was Jesus God? Rev 1:8 - "the Alpha and the Omega"

Postby ADLmostwanted » Fri Sep 25, 2009 4:25 pm

Hahaha, listen wmfincklestien... I am German / Scott / Irish and not a jew. If I was a big, fat jew my avatar would look like this...


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I was not ignoring the verse Rev. 3:14 "the beginning of the creation of God" intentionally. Your responses are long dissertations and it is hard to read it all, much less respond to it all. However, if I don't respond to a point you think is important then remind me as you have done here and I will respond.

In this case, I am glad you pointed out my oversite. After all, you are helping me to make my case. I agree with the verse that Jesus was "the beginning of the creation of God". Jesus was part of the creation of God. Jesus was created by God. Backup to Rev. 3:12 and there is yet more evidence against your claims Jesus is God. Jesus states in verse 12 "I will write on him(that conqueres) the name of my God". You can see from this verse that Jesus has a God that rules over him just like we do. Jesus isn't Yahweh!

Cheers!
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Re: Was Jesus God? Rev 1:8 - "the Alpha and the Omega"

Postby wmfinck » Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:06 pm

Oh, well, sorry, but I forgot who I am dealing with. Excuse me for not better defining "beginning". From Liddell & Scott's Greek-English Lexicon, the Greek word arche, translated "beginning" in this verse in question in the KJV: "beginning, origin, first cause". Christ is the origin of creation, and not, as you so shallowly assume, the first created thing.

You do not understand that Yahweh can be both the Father in heaven, AND one of His Own Creation, and so none of your arguments disprove anything I have said.

And even if you are not a jew by race, you certainly are in mind. Your persistent appeals to reason, rather than Scripture, prove that. Your admittance that you have not taken the time to read my posts, while at the same time disputing them, also proves that you are absolutely obnoxious. I'd bet you haven't read the Bible. If my posts are too long for you, how could you have?

Change your avatar, the new one fits much better!
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Re: Was Jesus God? Rev 1:8 - "the Alpha and the Omega"

Postby ADLmostwanted » Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:35 pm

I appeal to reason and scripture. Most of the threads I have created have a bible verse in the subject. So, don't say I dont refer to scripture. Furthermore, appeals to logic and reason are not signs that I am jewish in mind. Appeals to accept faggotry and midget, hermaphradite pornography would be signs I am of jewish mind.

I am a white nationalist who doesn't believe Jesus was God.
Last edited by ADLmostwanted on Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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