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Why Exactly Did Jesus Christ Die For Us?

A Place For the Naysayers to Dispute the Truth, Because Only a JEW Would Deny That Yahshua Christ IS God!!!

Why Exactly Did Jesus Christ Die For Us?

Postby Xile » Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:27 am

Ok, I know this might seem like an obvious answer at first, but the more I think about it the less I seem to understand.

I grew up as a Baptist and learned that in the Old Testament sacrifices were made as a repentance for the Israel's sins. Then when Jesus came into the world, He became the sacrificial Lamb instead of those clean animals. Basically, I always thought that Jesus died for us so that we would be saved from hell.

Here is where it doesn't make much sense: Why would Jesus die for our sins and to get salvation if we are already saved through God's promise? Did Jesus die so that we'd have everlasting life on Earth or in Heaven? Without Jesus we wouldn't be able to inherit the kingdom, right? Does that also mean that without Him we would be damned? When Jesus said, "no one comes to the father, but through me." John 14:6, was He saying that we will go to hell if we don't?

Here's more confusion on my part: Is our soul and body a part of the other? Why will we be given a new body if the soul is eternal, isn't the body only a vessel? If there is a heaven and a hell then what is the point of the resurrection? Why does God make a new heaven and new Earth just to destroy it again after 1000 years? Will we be in Heaven or on Earth? Only 144,000 will be in Heaven?

It would be nice if you could give me a clear answer to these questions, without having to research it myself. I don't know how long it would take for me to understand it all.

I'll add more questions when I remember what I wanted to write.

EDIT: "And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:" - Mark 9:43 KJV

Isn't that basically saying that if you sin you are in danger of going to hell for eternity? I thought that we were saved regardless of sin, but we will be cleansed with fire and then have everlasting life??
Last edited by Xile on Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Christians don’t need to “get” saved. Christ’s Salvation of His people Israel is an accomplished fact, not something we must “get”. - Pastor Mark Downey
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Re: Why Exactly Did Jesus Christ Die For Us?

Postby learningaboutCI » Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:52 am

It has everything to do with the marriage covenant of Israel with Yahweh. Israel (we) had failed, so Yahweh 'divorced' us by dying, and then remarried us. Yahweh won't quit, even when we do. Yahweh does what it takes. Anyway I am myself just learning, as you see.
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Re: Why Exactly Did Jesus Christ Die For Us?

Postby Xile » Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:58 am

learningaboutCI wrote:It has everything to do with the marriage covenant of Israel with Yahweh. Israel (we) had failed, so Yahweh 'divorced' us by dying, and then remarried us. Yahweh won't quit, even when we do. Yahweh does what it takes. Anyway I am myself just learning, as you see.


If we already had the covenant then what's the use in renewing it? If the Bible says that no one has ever seen God, then isn't that telling us that the previous generations are still dead and waiting for the resurrection? What about the verse that says God is the God of the living and not the dead?
Christians don’t need to “get” saved. Christ’s Salvation of His people Israel is an accomplished fact, not something we must “get”. - Pastor Mark Downey
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Re: Why Exactly Did Jesus Christ Die For Us?

Postby Joe » Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:30 am

Here's more confusion on my part: Is our soul and body a part of the other? Why will we be given a new body if the soul is eternal, isn't the body only a vessel? If there is a heaven and a hell then what is the point of the resurrection? Why does God make a new heaven and new Earth just to destroy it again after 1000 years? Will we be in Heaven or on Earth? Only 144,000 will be in Heaven?


1 Corinthians 15:42-44
So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
2 Corinthians 5:1
For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved , we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
Philippians 3:21
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Hell is non-existence, it is for the non-Whites and mongrels. I think I messaged you about how the White-race is all saved, but the mongrel children are not because they do not have the Immortal Spirit of Yahweh (check Bill's Broken Cisterns Paper). The resurrection is because we are all guilty of death under the Law, so God died in Our place, as Yahshua, so that he could re-marry us in eternal Life. We have eternal Life because God gave His Spirit to Adam (White Man), we are vessels who carry His Spirit.
Basically, I always thought that Jesus died for us so that we would be saved from hell.

From death, non-existence ...where everything in the universe but His Immortal Spirit belongs.

Here is where it doesn't make much sense: Why would Jesus die for our sins and to get salvation if we are already saved through God's promise? Did Jesus die so that we'd have everlasting life on Earth or in Heaven? Without Jesus we wouldn't be able to inherit the kingdom, right? Does that also mean that without Him we would be damned? When Jesus said, "no one comes to the father, but through me." John 14:6, was He saying that we will go to hell if we don't?


Under the Law we were all guilty of death, God's Love is Agape, we have commandments that we failed to live, we transgressed the Law. The beast hominids have no such Law, have no god, have no spirit (evil spirits perhaps), have no Life, no Promise ...are only destroyers contrary to His Work. Yahshua stood in Our place, and died for Our transgressions so that we would be reconciled with Him in eternal Life through faith rather than the Law. No-one comes to the Father but through Yahshua because whether we know it or not, we were purchased with His Blood. We have no Life outside of Him, He is Our Life, He brought us back from death.
Romans 3:21-26
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested , being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe : for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned , and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past , through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Try this http://christogenea.org/Sin1John, it also has commentary on the other races, fallen angels, Enoch that you were wondering about.

I am sure someone can expand on the nature of His propitiation.
...and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
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Re: Why Exactly Did Jesus Christ Die For Us?

Postby Joe » Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:47 am

If we already had the covenant then what's the use in renewing it? If the Bible says that no one has ever seen God, then isn't that telling us that the previous generations are still dead and waiting for the resurrection? What about the verse that says God is the God of the living and not the dead?


John 8:53-59
53 Are You greater than our father Abraham, who is dead? And the prophets are dead. Whom do You make Yourself out to be?" 54 Jesus answered, "If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, 'I do not know Him,' I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." 57 Then the Jews said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" 58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM." 59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

We had to renew it because we transgressed. We were divorced. But Yahshua's propitiation also redeemed Our forefathers, he was before Abraham, He is the Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden, when Adam was first condemned to death, Our first Father, He is Our only remedy for this original sin.

Romans 5:19
19 For as by one man's disobedience (Adam) many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous.

The Israel, Sin and the Law podcasts also address much of this, I am only halfway thorough those.
...and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
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Re: Why Exactly Did Jesus Christ Die For Us?

Postby brucebohn » Fri Sep 06, 2013 10:54 am

Quote:
It would be nice if you could give me a clear answer to these questions, without having to research it myself. I don't know how long it would take for me to understand it all.


Scripture tells us "Study to show yourself approved".. You are looking for
short answers as a manner of convenience. That would be fine, however,
this approach to gain "Wisdom & Understanding" will simply "trip you up".
You will never obtain the truths that you seek unless you are willing to
slow down, list your questions in order of importance to you, use the
search engines that are provided among all of the informative sites
made available to you, thru the hard work of very dedicated CI brethren,
and yes, probe the minds of the good folks here in the forum! There is
no "shortcuts" brother! We are all a "work in progress", all are on
seperate levels of spiritual understanding and should be working
with diligence in aspiring for that next level... That being said,
the answers to all the questions you have posed to this point, as
I have read them, are all readily available here at Christogenea &
they have been researched thouroughly! Learning truths is somewhat
like piecing a puzzle, you will not see the whole picture unless you
connect other pieces [ information] that does not come with "short answers".
Your [ cunning] enemies will only humiliate you with this approach!
Make the list, apply to the proper forum & we will work with you...
All due respect, Yahweh Bless, [ and keep digging]

:beer:
"Do you not know that with those running in a race,while all run,
but one takes the prize? In that manner you run, in order that you shall obtain."
1Cor. 9:24
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Re: Why Exactly Did Jesus Christ Die For Us?

Postby Kentucky » Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:21 am

Xile wrote:It would be nice if you could give me a clear answer to these questions, without having to research it myself. I don't know how long it would take for me to understand it all.

It took me over 20 years before I became a pastor and that was by default. I had as many questions as you do. So I bought books (this is before the internet). Sometimes it would take several years before I could find any satisfactory answer. The Word says, "Seek and ye shall find." That doesn't mean letting other people do your homework for you. We may never "understand it all" but it takes a lifetime to be approved of God. We could give you a short answer, but you would be short-changed compared to the richness of reading and gleaning the truth for yourself. The Bible speaks of the milk and strong meat of Scripture. It would be irresponsible of mature Christians to feed baby Christians a T-bone steak, they would gag on it, because they have not yet learned how to chew. It's good to ask questions, but there's a time when each of us have to "prove all things, and hold on the the good." As Pastor Sheldon Emry always used to say, "Don't take my word for it, study it out for yourself to see if it's true." This is where judeo-churchianity has fallen into apostasy: they took the word of their ministers as gospel without any corroboration. That's not the way it works for God's people. But, we are sheep and there's wolves in sheep's clothing out there, seeking whom they may devour. The Bible tells us why Jesus died for us. When you become more familiar with those passages, you'll start connecting the dots and be able to digest the deeper meanings of God's Word.

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Re: Why Exactly Did Jesus Christ Die For Us?

Postby Xile » Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:45 am

Wow, it turns out that they really didn't teach us anything in Church, lmao. I was just convincing my mom that the people at work who reject God will still be saved and she was shocked and confused. She has been taught well by her pastors and preachers, because she believes that anyone who doesn't accept God will go to hell and if we repent then we will go to heaven, etc. It's a bit odd, now of it is making sense to me.

Gah, I'm trying to understand this all but it's still closed off to me. What about all those verses that talk about God not listening to the prayers of non-believers and how Jesus was talking about a place where people will be punished for eternity?

This is crazy, literally the way I was interpreting the Bible has been twisted, because I got the ideas from the Church! I don't even know what to say...
Christians don’t need to “get” saved. Christ’s Salvation of His people Israel is an accomplished fact, not something we must “get”. - Pastor Mark Downey
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Re: Why Exactly Did Jesus Christ Die For Us?

Postby SwordBrethren » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:21 pm

Xile wrote:Wow, it turns out that they really didn't teach us anything in Church, lmao. I was just convincing my mom that the people at work who reject God will still be saved and she was shocked and confused. She has been taught well by her pastors and preachers, because she believes that anyone who doesn't accept God will go to hell and if we repent then we will go to heaven, etc. It's a bit odd, now of it is making sense to me.

Gah, I'm trying to understand this all but it's still closed off to me. What about all those verses that talk about God not listening to the prayers of non-believers and how Jesus was talking about a place where people will be punished for eternity?

This is crazy, literally the way I was interpreting the Bible has been twisted, because I got the ideas from the Church! I don't even know what to say...



Jesus said "you did not choose me, I chose you."

He even said that no man can draw near to Him!


When people talk about how "I've accepted Jesus as my savior!" I almost want to shake them and ask, "well did He accept you?!"


The modern church world teaches that salvation is a personal matter related to declared/articulated belief. If you praise Jesus with your lips and honor Him verbally, then you're good to go.

The modern church world is an obscenity, it is basically a social club, a popularity contest, a bunch of self-righteous perverts, dope-users, tramps, and skirt chasers, trying to convince themselves that they are decent people while proving to the world how righteous they are.
Revelation 18:
Und ich hörte eine andere Stimme vom Himmel, die sprach: Gehet aus von ihr, mein Volk, daß ihr nicht teilhaftig werdet ihrer Sünden, auf daß ihr nicht empfanget etwas von ihren Plagen!

Denn ihre Sünden reichen bis in den Himmel, und Gott denkt an ihren Frevel.


Judentum ist Verbrechertum!

Heute ist Deutschland die größte Weltmacht! - Der Führer 30 Januar 1940
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Re: Why Exactly Did Jesus Christ Die For Us?

Postby brucebohn » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:51 pm

Xile wrote:Wow, it turns out that they really didn't teach us anything in Church, lmao. I was just convincing my mom that the people at work who reject God will still be saved and she was shocked and confused. She has been taught well by her pastors and preachers, because she believes that anyone who doesn't accept God will go to hell and if we repent then we will go to heaven, etc. It's a bit odd, now of it is making sense to me.

Gah, I'm trying to understand this all but it's still closed off to me. What about all those verses that talk about God not listening to the prayers of non-believers and how Jesus was talking about a place where people will be punished for eternity?

This is crazy, literally the way I was interpreting the Bible has been twisted, because I got the ideas from the Church! I don't even know what to say...


"Do you not know that with those running in a race,while all run,
but one takes the prize? In that manner you run, in order that you shall obtain."
1Cor. 9:24

The race begins once you have removed the "ball & chain" of Judeo/ Talmudic
teachings! Your cerebral hard drive must be FLUSHED.......
Nothing is "closed off"to you, just remove the clutter first!
Our adversary works hard to keep us in fear, the "Hell Doctrine"
is but one tool. There will be greater & lesser rewards, some
will overcome thru hard work & the blessing of our Father,
many will enter the "Kingdom" in everlasting shame, however,
all Israel shall be saved! This is the answer to why our precious
Messiah was brutally slain! Time, Patience, prayer & study....
Ask & you shall receive, just take time & run the race.
"Do you not know that with those running in a race,while all run,
but one takes the prize? In that manner you run, in order that you shall obtain."
1Cor. 9:24
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