forum.christogenea.org

wmfinck,
I heard you are a supporter of Dualism, the same theology as the Trinity minus the holy Ghost. What are some of your scriptural references to support this(besides the obvious John 1:1). The KJV+ refers to Jesus as the Son of God over 70 times! If he was God / Jehovah / Yahweh why doesn't the bible just say so?

Clifton Emahiser recently posted a paper on his website, Yahweh in the Flesh: The Holy One of Israel, which addresses this topic. Ken Lent also has a lengthy discourse on the topic, in his paper Jesus Christ: in His Nature as Yahweh God. I have not yet written a paper addressing this matter directly.

This matter has been a source of contention since the Resurrection, after which the Apostle Thomas - seeing and addressing the risen Christ - surely professed an understanding of by making the exclamation as it is recorded in John: "My Lord [kurios] and my God [theos]!" It is not spelled out in Scripture - I believe - unless you first open your eyes and your heart to the Truth. Surely you will think that that is a pretentious remark.

I do not believe in dualism, or in a trinity. That is where all of you naysayers fail. I believe in One God: Yahweh, the Creator of all things and the Father of our race, who has the ability to manifest Himself as He so chooses. In Yahshua Christ He manifested Himself as one of his Own sons. That is how He is BOTH the Root and the Branch of Jesse! If you would listen to my internet radio programs, you would hear a multitude of proofs that this is so. Not only John 1, but Romans 7, Matthew 13, the entire Revelation, all prove this to be. Yahshua Christ was both the Father - who died to free Israel from the law of the wife and the penalty of death, AND the Son - who conducted Himself as the Perfect Man in order to set an example for us. He is the First and the Last, the Alpha and the Omega, in both Isaiah and in the Revelation. If you don't get that, don't blame me.

Since I do not have a paper on this topic, but have planned to write one, I will tell you what I will do. I made a PDF file of my thus-far collected notes on the topic, which also includes a copy of my Divorce Discourse essay at the end, which is quite pertinent. These notes are incomplete, and I do not have a link to them from anywhere else on my site - because I did not really plan to share them as they are, but nevertheless I want you to see some appropriate passages. The notes are linked here, at Yahshua IS Yahweh.PDF

Thanks for the quick response. You don't like being called a dualist. The definition of the term to us "naysayers" is simply this: Dualism - the belief that God is made up of two parts / faces, those being the Father and Son Jesus. This is in contrast to Trinitarians who believe God is composed of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Trinitarians generally do not avoid the term trinity which means three, even though their theological perspective is identical to yours(keeping in mind there many versions of the Trinity), minus the Holy Ghost of course. But I will respect your stance and not refer to you as a dualist or your belief as dualism. You may refer to me as a Unitarian. (other readers please don't confuse that term with Unitarian Universalism).

There is much to discuss on the this topic. I like to address it point by point, scripture by scripture. I will make individual threads for each important bible verse or topic. In this way it is easier for followers of the discussion to digest the information in manageable chunks. You may want to make a separate forum In my first thread I will layout my beliefs in plain english so we don't start a dialogue on misconceptions of the two separate viewpoints.

Then, I will begin by addressing, one at a time, your arguments / biblical verses you mention in the post above, including:

Rev 1:8 - "the Alpha and the Omega"
John 20:28 - Thomas alleged to have called Jesus God

I am unclear what verses in Matthew 13 and Romans 7 relate to this discussion. Please clarify...

Again your reasoning fails. For I am not a "dualist" simply because I know that Yahshua Christ is Yahweh come in the flesh. Rather, I believe that Yahweh being Sovereign over all creation manifests Himself as He sees fit. For that reason He was the flame in the bush, the pillar of fire, the pillar of smoke, the effulgence on the mountain, the power within the ark, the rock in the desert. But finally, at the appointed time, He was manifested as Yahshua Christ, having come as His Own Son.
Accepting your label would be on my part an admittance of uncertainty - that there are somehow other categories of "truth" equal in value to my own beliefs, which have their own labels. I do not think like you do: I will not accept your puny labels, since there is only one truth! Yahshua IS Yahweh! Praise Yahweh!

Your a "whitey". Deny that.

P.S. You are also a dualist.

ADLmostwanted said
"You don't like being called a dualist. The definition of the term to us "naysayers" is simply this: Dualism - the belief that God is made up of two parts / faces, those being the Father and Son Jesus."

I have never heard of this before.

If you study Pastor Robert (Bob )Miles (RIP) from The Mountain Church's teachings, Dualism, is the belief that Good and Evil, "God"and satanael are equally as strong.

satanael ripped through the fabric separating dimensions, and invaded our universe.


That is a whole other study in of itself, did Yahweh actually create satan?
Is satan and lucifer the same being? or two separate entities?

The word "Satan" has always been applied to mean any "adversary"according to Ted Weiland.

Is satan in league with not just fallen angels/demons, but additional evil forces that came from outside the realm that YAHWEH created?
(Some would call these "lower frequencies"that animals, such as our pet dogs and cats, are able to see and react to. They have not been taught these things do not exist.)

While for us on this planet, and all that we know, He, YAHWEH, is ALL powerful and OUR Creator, but much knowledge has been destroyed and hidden by secret societies /luciferians/the catholic church /etc.

I am very glad that William and Pastor Eli delve into the Book of Enoch and other non-canonized books which helps us in our walk of faith and understanding.

ADLmostwanted wrote:Your a "whitey". Deny that.

P.S. You are also a dualist.

No, I am not a "whitey", that is nigger language, and I do not respect it. I am a White Man. For 25 years living in the jungle, whenever I met another White Man who adopted the language of the apes, they got treated like apes.
Neither am I a dualist. You obviously haven't even read my posts. According to your logic, I would have to increment one degree of magnitude for every form which I believe that God could assume, or perhaps for every form that was perceived as being God. I said, in part:

wmfinck wrote:I believe that Yahweh being Sovereign over all creation manifests Himself as He sees fit. For that reason He was the flame in the bush, the pillar of fire, the pillar of smoke, the effulgence on the mountain, the power within the ark, the rock in the desert. But finally, at the appointed time, He was manifested as Yahshua Christ, having come as His Own Son.

The term "dualist" implies "two", but Creator+flame in bush+pillar of fire+pillar of smoke+effulgence on the mountain+power within the ark+rock in the desert+Son = 8, NOT 2!!! Can you not add? I could probably throw in a few other forms, such as the Holy Spirit and the effulgence in the Temple, and I am not a Dualist, but perhaps a Nonalist or a Decimalist. Yet all of that is silly. Rather, it is your obstinate mind which cannot perceive that "Yahweh our God is One God", and that He can do anything He so desires: even to visit His creation as one of His Own sons!!!

Now if the Spirit is Yahweh, today's reading assignment is 2 Corinthians 3:14-18, because the Spirit is the Christ. The Three are One, no matter how you would like to deny it. You snarky little remarks have also failed you.

Technically you are still a "whitey" per the negro slang. Just because you don't respect jigaboo talk, doesnt mean you can define it. If the shoe fits wear it. Also, I can add 1+1+1=3 , not 1+1+1=1. Maybe it is you that failed 1st grade arithmetic.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I never failed a math class in my life. I am glad you wrote this reply the way that you did. It demonstrates to me that this argument truly exists not because of the nature of the Christ, but because of the nature of the people doing the arguing.

Indeed, it is obvious to me that you lack certain cognitive abilities in abstract thinking. These abilities are innate, and cannot be acquired (no matter what the jews and evolutionists claim).

You look at a "Father", a "Son", and a "Holy Spirit" and see 3 distinctly different entities, and you cannot perceive anything beyond that. I read the Bible and realize that ONE entity manifests Himself as He desires at any given time. Do not blame me because you do not understand that.

In all of your idiotic arguing in this thread, you have only tried to somehow prove me wrong with the same old supposedly "rational" arguments that the jews have used for two thousand years. None of anything you say is new. But you have not offered an alternate explanation for even ONE of the scriptures which I have cited. All you have done is nay-say, and quote a few jew-lovers that I have already proven to be wrong. If you cannot do better than that, you should probably not even bother.

Isaiah 43:10-11: 10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. 11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

Isaiah 43:14: 14 Thus saith the LORD, your redeemer, the Holy One of Israel...

Isaiah 45:5-6: 5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

Isaiah 9:6-8: 6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. 8 The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.

John 14:9: 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

John 20:28-29: 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Deny all of this, and you are a jew. Continue to debate this, and you admit that you are a jew! One more word in opposition to these Scriptures, and you have proven that you are a jew! So go back to the den of vipers that you crawled out of!