What is YHWH?

[Lilkanga]

Besides the subject of the calendar, I know of no other subject that divides YHWH's people more than that of the nature of YHWH. There are so many view points and I've been knee deep in all of the various arguements over the years, until I have come to realize that YHWH's full nature will never be known to us, while we are in the flesh.

However, I would like to give what I see concerning YHWH's nature. I reserve the right to be wrong on anything I write, but especially this. >grin<

I see the name of YHWH as a family name. Please see Eph. 3:14-15. The entire family of YHWH is named after the name of The Father. The Father's name is YHWH, thus YHWH is a family name.

This is spelled out in John 1:1, as well. For the life of me, I do not see how anyone can read John 1:1 and not see the fact that Yeshua (however His name is to be pronounced) pre-existed before His fleshly tabernacle here on earth. He even stated that before Abraham was "I Am".

So if Yeshua pre-exisited, was He the only one who was there with The Father? I beleive the answer to that question is no. I believe there was/is many, many beings with the name of YHWH attached to them. The entire family of YHWH is vast and made up of so much more than just angels.

Ponder this question......Is this the first time YHWH has done this entire 8,000 year plan of salvation for mankind? Has He completed this before? Will He do it again? I think the answer to both these questions is yes and I think the scripture bears this out, but that is a another subject for another time.

However you see The Messiah's personal earthly name while He was in the flesh, the scripture teaches that His name at this time and from now on is YHWH. We know this from Jer. 23:5-6 and 33:15-16. The Branch will be called YHWH Our Righteousness.

Yeshua was/is the first born among many brethren (1Cor. 15:20-23 and Romans 8:29, meaning that if Yeshua was resurrected into the Family of YHWH, so will many of His Israelite Brothers and Sisters, so obtain such a status of being called YHWH.

YHWH (The Father) and Family is a Creator. He has always been creating and he always will. He is procreating Himself after His Own perfect Righteous Kind.

The Member of YHWH's Family that left His Royal position, to be in the loins of The Set Apart line of Adam, through Seth, through Enoch, through Noah, through Shem, through Eber, through Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, through Judah, through David and finally through Joseph and Marry, was the One whom History calls Yeshua or Jesus.

I make the case that This One was in the Genes of all these Patriarchs by plan and thus this is the way that all the old testament men and women had the Holy Spirit in them. It was because of Race that YHWH's Spirit dwelt in anyone before Acts 2.

Praise YHWH that Yeshua won. He defeated death and sin and was our Example, showing us that we can overcome in this flesh, if we have YHWH's Spirit dwelling in us. Then we too may enter in to life as full members of The YHWH family.

Blessings to you all in the Family name of YHWH,

Joey

[JamesTheJust]

I have come to realize that YHWH's full nature will never be known to us, while we are in the flesh.

This is so true. Any CI student is well aware of the fact that far too many of our kin have little to no understanding of the true nature of YHWH. I am thankful to HIM that HE has seen fit to give me such a wonderful CI family. And although we may not know all there is to know about our FATHER, I can rest assured that my CI family knows HIM far better than any of my other kinspeople.

I was never more reminded of this fact that when speaking with kin, whom I have known all my life of flesh, but who still believe that YHWH loves everyone; in spite of the fact that HE HIMSELF states otherwise. So many of our people are blinded to the true nature of our GOD. They will certainly have a loud wake up call soon.

[wmfinck]

You are treading on dangerously unscriptural ground with the insistence that Yahweh (the I AM, the Eternal) is "a family name". It is also another route to the trinitarian concept that Yahshua Christ is somehow a different being than Yahweh, other than a manifestation of Yahweh.

There are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of times in Scripture where we see "I am Yahweh", "Yahweh the Holy ONE" "I am Yahweh thy GOD" (not "Gods", and there is "none other besides Me" and not "Us"), in spite of the way in which men want to interpret Genesis 1:26. In fact, Throughout Scripture it is evident that Yahweh alone created Adam, that there was only one Creator, etc., and so the understanding of many concerning that passage is clearly in error.

Many other arguments contrary to such a position as that which you express have already been presented in this forum, and I can only suggest that you read them.

Bill

[Lilkanga]

Hello Bill,

Again, being no new comer to the debate on the true nature of YHWH, I know full well of all the passages that speak of YHWH being one, thus I will fore go all the passages that speak to YHWH being a family, or being a plural entity, save just a few to make my point, for I am sure that you have heard them all before.

So that leaves you and I in two different camps and we can not both be correct.......Right?

Well, actually I have come to see that we might both be right. Let me explain and you tell me where I am wrong.

The word Family can be both plural and singular. I actually heard you attest to this fact recently on a past program. What makes this so? Is it simply language laws? or could there be something else at work?

One thing is clear..... YHWH is a Spirit and we can not know the full nature of that Spirit, while we are in the flesh, but we can see various details of it via the scripture.

Yes, YHWH is one and He, not us, made all things and He, alone, is our Savior. However, please consider this very important question.

What will we become once we enter into life? Once we are resurrected into flesh and then changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye to a Spirit Being? (1Cor. 15:50-52) Will we not be a part of Him? Will we not be a manifestation of Him? Just as Yeshua was a manifestation of Him?

My sons are manifestations of me. They look totally different, but they both look exactly like me, yet they are not me, they are a part of The Thompson family. The Thompson's are one family and there are good and bad within our family. The head of our living family tree is my Dad, James Thompson and no one disputes who is head. He's a rather large man, with very righteous character, as far as the world is concerned and everyone knows this family is his, but we are still one family.

Does this typology of the physical family not fit the Spiritual oneness of YHWH. Yes, YHWH is one and THE YHWH is The Father and everyone that manifests themselves from that family is a part of YHWH HIMSELF, as that one Being.

I think Romans 8 speaks to this fact. The oneness of YHWH, is manifesting Himself (and I would say even procreating Himself) after His own kind, which is perfect righteous character, through The Anglo Saxon Race. Thus if we over come and put to death the deeds of the flesh and put on that holy righteous character (Rom. 8:12-13), then we can then become Sons of God (Rom. 8:14).

Bill, here is the plurality that you said did not exist when speaking of YHWH. God is singular, yes, but the attachment of future sons, makes the entire phrase plural. Am I wrong here, in your eyes?

Now, could these sons be just physical flesh beings, not spirit beings as I have stated earlier? No way.

These same sons are placed on a par with Yeshua Messiah and if Yeshua was a manifestation called a son, then so will we be. Look at Romans 8:17.

"....And if Children, then heirs, heirs of God and joint heirs with Messiah if indeed we suffer with Him, that we must also be glorified together with Messiah."

I think that YHWH, speaking in the old testament spoke of Himself, establishing Himself as The One True God, however, the nature of that entity was not know until YHWH manifested Himself in the form of Yeshua Messiah for the purpose of revealing more fully what and who YHWH was/is.

Yeshua plainly stated that no one knew The Father except the Son. (Luke 10:22). And that these things are being revealed to babes (verse 21).

Evenstill, considering all of this, YHWH is still one......How?

Either 1)We become a part of YHWH, adding to His power and strength, when we over come and are made His sons or 2)YHWH is a family of separate beings, unified in the Spirit of righteous character, with one head The Almighty YHWH, who is progenitor of His family.

Not knowing your response until you post it. I will guess that you would choose number 1, while I say number 2 is more right, but I have a feeling that the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Please note that I am not a trinitarian or anything close to such garbage. I hold closely to the oneness belief, but I expound upon that belief, trying to understand more fully how YHWH is one, a task that I am sure we will simply not know until the fullness of our manifestation has come.

Please do not think less of me for even questioning your beliefs on this subject. I am simply trying to convey and learn accordingly, in all humility possible.

Blessings to you, in the name of YHWH.

Joey

[wmfinck]

I have often pointed out that if the Psalm says that "ye are gods", and the Scripture cannot be broken, then our final state must be much like that of Yahweh Himself. For that reason Christ said that "There is no student above the teacher, but all having been restored he shall be as his teacher" (Luke 6:40, CNT).

Yet Christ Himself was indeed Yahweh-come-in-the-flesh, and not simply another son who had attained perfection and parity with Yahweh, which is what your first post seemed to insinuate to me. He was before Abraham, and both the root and the branch of Jesse (Isaiah 11:1), which is the root and the offspring of David (Rev. 22:16), as Pastor Visser so excellently pointed out in a thread here recently.

This is proven in many ways in Scripture. For instance, as Eli and I covered just the other night (http://christogenea.org/site/node/946), in Isaiah 43:10 Yahweh states: "Ye are my witnesses, saith Yahweh, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me." Therefore when Thomas exclaimed to the risen Christ "My Lord and my God" (John 20:28) he must have then realized that Christ was truly Yahweh-in-the-flesh, as He promised to be our Redeemer so many times, and told us that there is no other, right in those very chapters of Isaiah.

So I only wanted to clarify, that Christ did not become as God - He was rather God born as a man (Isaiah 9:6), the Master that His students can be like, once they are perfected.

[Lilkanga]

Bill,

Is it possible that when YHWH said there is no God formed before me and no God after me that He was speaking of The Family of YHWH, since God (Elohim) can be in the plural tense? Also, is it possible that the one who became Yeshua, left His position as YHWH, to become man, for the purpose of being our example and by extension our savior, risking that position if He failed, only to succeed and obtain that original position once again as YHWH God? This question of course would be from my prespective that The Father and Yeshua are two separate beings, sharing the oneness of Spirit, just as a woman and a man are one flesh.

Joey

[wmfinck]

The first problem with the entire premise is that it concentrates on the grammatical number of the word "elohim", which CAN be plural (but is used of Yahweh as a singular plural of majesty), while it ignores the grammatical number of all of the other nouns and verbs which are used in all of the very same statements which you refer to! In other words, where we see for example the English statement "I AM YAHWEH THY GOD (ELOHIM)" the Hebrew verb is singular, and not plural, whereby we know that the Yahweh entity is singular, and not plural. This is one small example out of thousands. While English verbs rely on auxiliary words, such as pronouns, for their grammatical number to be understood (i.e. he is running or they are running), Hebrew and Greek and Latin verbs have grammatical number built into the word form, as do those of other languages.

As an aside, I see in yeshua a jewish spelling of the name, as they endeavor to take the YAH out of Yahshua. Most of the people I know who have used "Yeshua" have been heavily influenced by jewish literature. I am not asserting that such is the case with you, but it is my experience. There is Biblical evidence that the name is Yahshua, and much proof that it is indeed the same name we see transliterated as Joshua in the English Old Testament. I treated all of this to some degree here: http://christogenea.org/site/yahshuatojesus

[IdentityChristian]

As an aside, I see in yeshua a jewish spelling of the name, as they endeavor to take the YAH out of Yahshua. Most of the people I know who have used "Yeshua" have been heavily influenced by jewish literature.

That explains that mystery to me most clearly!!! I always knew there was something wrong with that "yeshua"

[Vandal]

Yah + Sua = I AM HE WHO SAVES. There could be no other name. "Yeshuah" is not even a remote possibility. It is Yahshua. Interestingly the Hebrew "sua" is where we get Old English, "saue," thus modern English "save." I was once dragged into the Jew-inspired debate over whether it was Yahshuah, Yehowushuawa, Yehowuuueeewohuuwaahaaaosheeeah, blah, blah. Anything to even slightly corrupt the truth, and you know a Jew or love of Jewish shekels runs behind it.

The whole idea of men becoming gods smacks of Mormonism and antique freemasonry. God is not a "superman." He is composed of all the substance, energy, space, and spirit in the entire creation, and all of that is only a mere appendage of his vastness. It is far beyond the mind of mortal man to even brush the subject. We will be made like the appearance of Yashua the resurrected Son of Man; it does not say we will be made exactly like Yahweh, who is in and through all things. On a minuscule scale we might, I could accept, but two things cannot occupy the same space simultaneously. Two separate things cannot both be omnipresent. We are Yahweh's image, reflection, shadow. He is the solid, omnipresent object.