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Christianity and Pharmaceuticals

Discussions concerning medicine, health, Big Pharma sorcery, etc.

Re: Christianity and Pharmaceuticals

Postby Joe » Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:25 pm

Your strength and faith are an example Richard and I hope God hears you and is with you.
...and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
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Re: Christianity and Pharmaceuticals

Postby Richard1 » Thu Dec 10, 2015 1:51 pm

I mistakenly reached out to the pro-allopathic AgingCare.com Forum. My post is located here:

https://www.agingcare.com/Questions/am-i-wrong-to-refuse-my-wifes-pain-killers-on-her-behalf-191815.htm?cpage=0&cm=565032&utm_source=Notification&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Answer+Own#565032

Here are some of the responses:

She took this drug without adverse effects in the past. Why are you concluding that it is this drug that has her in a catatonic state and not the disease process itself?

It is true that Hydromorphone can cause a very long list of side effects. It is also the case that the brain cancer, depending on where the cancer is, can have a huge range of symptoms.

Whatever the cause of your wife's state, drug or disease, she is still in pain, right? I don't suppose you like the idea of your wife screaming and groaning in pain any more than the nurses do, right? It is not a matter of "convenience" -- it is a matter of concern for the patient. Medical professionals typically don't like to inflict pain. So if she is not going to take Hydromorphone, what is your wife going to take to control the pain? The doctor is suggesting morphine. It think that is a very common suggestion for treating pain in cancer patients. (https://www.oncolink.org/experts/article.cfm?id=2347) The cancer itself may be a death sentence, but the morphine wouldn't be. The intention is to keep her comfortable.

I had morphine after surgery many years ago. It certainly was not a death sentence. The surgery was fairly routine and I wasn't in mortal danger. I was just in pain.

I don't know exactly what your beliefs are, and I support you in respecting them for yourself and for you wife (if she shares your beliefs.) But if your beliefs allow you to accept pain management in the form of one drug, I don't understand why you would reject another drug that may do a better job in this situation.

I certainly hope the pressure sores can be healed and that your wife can be reasonably comfortable while that is occurring.

Babalou
------------------------

Richard, I'm so sorry that your wife's cancer has metastasized and is causing her such pain. Pain from end stage cancer can be excruciating. I'm sure you don't want your wife to be in pain when being cared for.

When one has a life-limiting illness and there are only opportunities for palliation, not cure of a condition, it may be time to consider calling upon hospice services.

Know that you've done everything you can for your wife. Continue to help her complete this journey in peace.

Eyerishlass
---------------------------

As a healthcare provider, if my patient is screaming and groaning in pain you can bet I am going to offer that patient pain medicine and not just offer it but encourage it. The screaming and groaning doesn't inconvenience me, it makes me hurt for the patient. It makes me want to do everything in my power to take away their pain. It makes me want to stroke their brow with my hand and whisper to them that it's all going to be ok, that they're ok, and that they will have relief from the pain in just a few minutes, just as soon as I can draw up their medication. A patient's screaming and groaning from pain isn't an inconvenience, it's a sign that their pain isn't being controlled, and that is unacceptable.

If your wife is in agony every time she's turned she should have pain medication prior to each repositioning. I would also agree with Babalou in suggesting hospice for your wife. Hospice providers are experts in pain control and will listen to your concerns and work with you in providing your wife what she needs going forward.

Your final question to us was are you wrong to say no to morphine. My answer would be yes.

Sendme2help
-------------------------

Repeatedly dropped her, led to leg swelling, bed sores. Did a diagnosis confirm a fracture? Even with 'progression of the disease process', can we have a definitive diagnosis regarding this pain? Why would anyone be turning her with a fracture?

Being dropped is not a progression of the cancer disease process.

So very sorry, and no need to explain to me. Please get a second opinion.

GardenArtist
------------------------------

I'm going out on a limb here but I think this needs to be said. Your first statement was:

"Please pray for us as we are held captive by the medical system and it's pharmakeia (sorceries). Here is our abbreviated story:"

Sorcery? Are you saying the medical professionals are sorcerers?

I do understand that you have strong religious beliefs, but your wife has serious medical issues, and you've sought treatment from the conventional medical professionals for treatment. If you feel you're held captive by these "sorcerers", I'm not sure you really want their treatment or understand what they're trying to do.

First, recognize that morphine is powerful. I had it once and that was the last time I will ever have unless I develop a terminal disease. It knocked me out and had side effects for a week afterward. And that was only for surgery.

Second, your wife is probably in excruciating pain. Isn't it compassionate for the medical professionals to address that and try to alleviate her pain? Would you rather she suffer?

Third, you wrote that a tumor caused stroke-like symptoms. Have you discussed with the doctors whether this tumor can be removed, or would it be best treated with the med as you described? In addition, what parts of her body are being affected by the location of this tumor?

Fourth, you wrote that your wife was "relatively fine otherwise" when she was admitted to a hospital for pressure sore treatment. I don't wish to belabor a point or inflict emotional suffering, but with metastatic cancer and a brain tumor, I think it's not realistic to believe that she was fine.

Fifth, and I caution that I'm speaking only from experience, but when my sister's cancer metastasized to her brain, she also developed spinal as well as mobility problems. She could walk only with difficulty; the brain tumors (13 of them) were affecting her spine.

Depending on the location of your wife's brain tumor, I'm wondering if you discussed with the doctors whether the tumor itself was causing or contributing to the spinal pain?

Sixth, I would suggest you ask yourself that if you kidnapped your wife, how would you care for her during the advanced cancer state? How will you know how to handle any changes or further metastasis?

Seventh, I'm sure that anyone as devout as the two of you are is reluctant to address that cancer can be terminal, and your wife may be reaching that state. Hard as it is to accept, try to do so; get counseling from whoever is head of your particular religion, try to connect with others who are battling metastatic cancer via a support group or through Gilda's Club, and educate yourself as much as you can to the actual physical conditions. This knowledge will help you understand what the situation is and hopefully guide you through the next phases.

As others, I am sorry that this cancer hasn't been contained but hope that you can find some comfort in knowing that your wife is getting better care at a hospital with people who are skilled in treating it than she would be at home in the absence of advanced diagnoses and treatment availabilities.

GardenArtist
------------------------------

Just another thought - you apparently are proxy under her Living Will or Advanced Directive....if you refuse medical treatment that the doctors consider necessary, it's possible they could take legal steps to override your authority and administer the treatment they feel will help, including pain mitigation.

So it might help to learn more about the morphine, the dosage, how it affects her, and specifically whether it's the morphine or the metastasis that's causing the conditions you seek to alleviate.

GardenArtist
-----------------------------
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Re: Christianity and Pharmaceuticals

Postby EzraLB » Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:09 pm

Richard,
One issue I'm not clear on is whether or not it's been determined if the pain that your wife is experiencing is caused by the brain tumors or damage to her back from the fall. As I said previously, you should find that out as soon as you can. Is the pain that she is experienced localized only in her back?

Depending on the size of a brain tumor, your wife may not be experiencing pain yet from it. People have been known to be asymtomatic even with large brain tumors. I assume the doctors have done brain scans to determine the progress of the tumor--and that would reveal the likelihood of symptoms showing up in other parts the body, such as seizures or vomiting. But until the source of the pain can be confirmed, I would not assume your wife's pain is caused by the cancer.

That said, having experienced end stage cancer pain, I can assure you that it is unlike any pain most people have ever experienced. The worst back pain is nothing compared to cancer pain--it's a whole different level of radiating hell. Had it not been for the relief I got from hydromorphone, I would have wanted to jump out of the nearest window (figuratively).

The legitimate use of opiates--derived from opium--goes back thousands of years. There are all kinds of natural analgesics, and I believe they are here at our disposal for a reason. I don't believe for a second that Yahweh wishes us to suffer by not using what we can for legitimate reasons.

The doctors' priority should be to eliminate the possibility that your wife's pain is caused by her back trauma. To simply assume that it's entirely cancer-related is potentially a very dangerous misdiagnosis. If I were in your position, I would insist that they find out the true cause first before something worse happens.
"No Rothschild is English. No Baruch, Morgenthau, Cohen, Lehman, Warburg, Kuhn, Kahn, Schiff, Sieff or Solomon was ever born Anglo-Saxon. And it is for this filth that you fight. It is for this filth that you murdered your Empire. It is this filth that elects, selects, your politicians." -- Ezra Pound
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Re: Christianity and Pharmaceuticals

Postby Richard1 » Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:34 pm

EzraLB wrote:One issue I'm not clear on is whether or not it's been determined if the pain that your wife is experiencing is caused by the brain tumors or damage to her back from the fall.

EzraLB wrote:The doctors' priority should be to eliminate the possibility that your wife's pain is caused by her back trauma. To simply assume that it's entirely cancer-related is potentially a very dangerous misdiagnosis. If I were in your position, I would insist that they find out the true cause first before something worse happens.


I agree. Sharon has been refusing x-rays, etc since she has been through so much radiation in the past. However, while she is doped up, I'll pressure him again for an x-ray in our local hospital. Sharon would have to be taken on a 1.5 hour ambulance drive to the nearest major hospital to have a CT Scan or MRI. I don't know what type of test she needs.
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Re: Christianity and Pharmaceuticals

Postby EzraLB » Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:48 pm

Richard,
Sounds like a good plan. I, too, felt the way your wife does about the x-rays--I had dozens of them, including CAT-Scans and PET Scans. And I got very tired of them and worried about all the exposure. However, some of them are necessary--and can save your life. And a little more radiation is not going to be what makes your wife sick at this point--that is, she shouldn't worry that another one is going to cause cancer--I had the same feelings, but ultimately my rational mind told me that it was too late to worry about it. I wish you the best, and hope this issue gets resolved.
"No Rothschild is English. No Baruch, Morgenthau, Cohen, Lehman, Warburg, Kuhn, Kahn, Schiff, Sieff or Solomon was ever born Anglo-Saxon. And it is for this filth that you fight. It is for this filth that you murdered your Empire. It is this filth that elects, selects, your politicians." -- Ezra Pound
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Re: Christianity and Pharmaceuticals

Postby Richard1 » Thu Dec 10, 2015 3:57 pm

Thanks for all the comments guys. I'm trusting YHWH to guide our path and give us knowledge, strength and courage.
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Re: Christianity and Pharmaceuticals

Postby Richard1 » Sat Dec 12, 2015 2:23 pm

Good news: Sharon is out of her "coma" now and is starting to watch people and is trying to talk. What a relief, that was scary! She ate a good breakfast. We continually have to tell the nurses not to give her morphine unless needed for rotation or transfer. She doesn't like the current nurse today and has been giving her the evil eye - it's comical. The doctor was just here and was impressed with her improvement. Her x-ray revealed no back fracture or cancer present so that is good news. However, she is showing signs of osteoporosis so we'll have to give her calcium and vitamin D and she needs physiotherapy. My next challenge is to convince her to take her antibiotic pill.

Thanks for the prayers everyone.
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Re: Christianity and Pharmaceuticals

Postby Acrimonious » Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:22 am

Don't forget about exposure to sunlight, whenever possible. The body needs it for Vitamin D.
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Re: Christianity and Pharmaceuticals

Postby Richard1 » Mon Dec 14, 2015 7:38 pm

Update on Sharon:

Her nurse gave her morphine again yesterday and she went into a catatonic state again. I had a heavy debate with the on duty doctor last night and requested that Sharon not be given any more morphine and be released from the hospital. After he bullied me with his allopathic point of view, I presented our naturopathic point of view and he finally agreed to carry out my (and Sharon's) wishes.

This afternoon, I met with our family doctor and the discharge nurse. In their opinion, they believe that Sharon's body is shutting down; that nutrition can't be given because she can't swallow and her kidneys can't process it; and that she only has days or weeks to live. They won't give her intravenous fluids/food and they want pain control in place. I agreed to move her to the palliative room. Although they have given up on her, I've been giving her kefir and carrot juice by syringe. Tomorrow, I will give her chaga tea, pedialyte, green goodness and beet juice to build her up.

Her decline has been shocking since she has been in the hospital. To take her home and get home support in place would be a major hurdle. Either way, I will be applying for compassionate care benefits and staying with her full-time (finances will be very tight).
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Re: Christianity and Pharmaceuticals

Postby Gaius » Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:39 am

A distressing situation, Richard.

I'm just one of no doubt many who are praying.
What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
(Romans 8 v 31)
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