Mark 9:1 and Matthew 16:28

[Joe]

Mat 16:28 Truly I say to you that there are some of those standing here who shall by no means taste death until when they should see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom!"

If this means that His Kingdom was established at the time, then only some were saved, and those who were saved were not saved from death ...since they died anyways. I think the establishment of His Kingdom would mean all Israel is saved and that death would end.

Mainstream commentaries seem to have a common theme that witnessing Christ before they died was what is meant. Another thing to remember is that the transfiguration occurred after this saying. The patriarchs were with Christ, He is the God of the living.

I think that those who are faithful to Christ will not taste death, even if they should die, even until His Kingdom is come.

Anyone else think about this verse?

edit:I missed a capitalisation for 'God'

[bahr]

Just a supposition: if we think racially instead of individually, then we can make the hypothesis that Christ was talking about lineage here and not about individuals. Some of the people around Him were to stay pure in their posterity until the end while others would not (a bastard being dead)...

[Joe]

Very good Bahr, thank-you.

[wmfinck]

My Matthew notes are not as developed as a lot of my more recent work. We all battle against time, an enemy as wicked to us as the devils that distract us from utilizing what little of it we have.

http://christogenea.org/podcasts/matthew-chapters-16-and-17

26 For what shall it benefit a man if perhaps he should gain the whole society but his life is lost?Or what shall a man give in exchange for his life? 27 For the Son of Man is going to come with the splendor of His Father with His messengers, and then He shall render to each according to his practice. 28 Truly I say to you that there are some of those standing here who shall by no means taste death until when they should see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom!”

If we labor for the accumulation of the riches of the world, then we lose our reward, as Christ tells us elsewhere, such as at Matthew 6:19-21 where He states: “19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: 20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: 21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.” We work for the treasures of heaven by keeping His law, loving our brother, and devoting ourselves to them.

Many people point to this last statement in order to prove the idea of Preterism – an idea which is demonstrably false in the light of so many other prophecies and passages of Scripture. It is evident from our experience, that the bodies of these people certainly died, but what we must ask is whether they themselves actually experienced that death. It is evident in many Scriptures that the consciousness indeed exists apart from the physical body. Another answer may be found in the account of the event which follows, however it is also evident that some things are outside of any knowledge which we could be certain of presently. Two men appear in the transfiguration on the mount, as it is called, Moses and Elijah. Elijah was taken physically by Yahweh – the flaming chariot event described in 2 Kings chapter 2. But Moses, as it is described in Deuteronomy chapter 34, physically died and was buried in the land of Moab.

I may or may not have elaborated in the podcast, but the point was expressed by Joe, that our Yahweh God is the God of the living.

For Christians, death should be an Old Testament construct. The spiritual paradigm is different in Christ. I plan on elaborating on that soon. I think i already have here somewhere.

[wmfinck]

Perhaps the idea was expressed a little more completely in my comments for Mark 9:1:

IX 1 And He said to them: “Truly I say to you that there are some of those standing here whom shall by no means taste of death until they should see the Kingdom of Yahweh having come with power!”

This same exclamation appears at the end of Matthew chapter 16, and the beginning of Matthew 17 records the event known as the Transfiguration on the Mount, which also follows here. In this event, we see the physical appearance of Moses, whose death was recorded in Deuteronomy and whose body was buried in the land of Moab, and of Elijah, who is said not to have died but to have been taken away, as Enoch also was. So while it is evident that these men may not be with us in body, that does not mean that they died as we perceive death to be. To taste of death is to experience it, and if our spirit – which is also what we may call our psyche, or consciousness, departs from our body before it dies, have we actually experienced death? Such is the hope of Christianity. Paul talks of that promise of life in Christ where he says at Romans 8:2: “Indeed the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Yahshua has liberated you from the law of sin and death.” In 1 John 3:14 the apostle says that “We know that we have passed over from out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He not loving abides in death.” The promise is stated as a matter of fact. Remember the words in Mark chapter 8, concerning the love and the sacrifice a man must show for his race, which is his true nation. The promise of life removes our fear of death, and we gladly sacrifice our own lives on behalf of our kindred. This is how all of our ancient ancestors lived, and it is why so many of those great Germanic warriors of the past had no fear of death, for they knew that it would bring life. At the end of this chapter of Mark we will see again that upon death, we shall indeed enter into life.

[mchawe]

To me that means Physical Immortality. Yahshua Christ demonstrated that it could be done. He appeared in the flesh after his Crucifixion. In fact his students touched him and he was physical. He had the ability to manifest a body at will.
I think we all have it in us to do it except for our ignorance and sinfulness.
Maybe there are people doing it now who are 2000 or more, years old. That is what it says. I don't see them waving their arms about and telling everyone about it.
The 40 day fast is a good starting point if you can do it. I can't! I am in the same boat as everyone else

[ElleJay]

Reading this post has made me wish to lend credence to its contents. Why Yahweh worked in the following ways in my life, I do not fully understand, but I will ever be glad that He did. He took the sting of death away for me, in part, as I watched my parents leave this earthly life behind.

I was blessed to be able to be with both of my parents when they passed on. I believe their deaths were God’s way of reassuring me, because the thought of death … dying … putting a body in the grave … from an earthly view … is not happy … nor comforting. In fact, the unknown is a little bit scary … even though I know it should not be. Reading about death in the Scriptures makes me want to die as many of the patriarchs did … so simply … and he slept with his fathers (or some such wording).

The morning my Dad died is rather unforgettable, because the night had been horrific. I will not go into the details, but that morning we were sitting in the bedroom … an aunt, uncle, my mother, and me. Daddy had been quiet for a bit … perhaps an hour or so … was more or less in a comatose state, although we had talked some that morning. We were waiting for the nurse to come, and she had barely stepped into the room when my Dad suddenly opened his eyes, wider than I had ever seen before and looked upward … toward a corner of the room. My Mother said several times … “What is he looking at? What does he see?” To this day, I have to believe he was seeing into a dimension that was mesmerizing … a scene he never removed his eyes from until he drew that final breath. To me, he must have been viewing the most amazing and delightful sight that was unimaginable … the glory of God and the life everlasting … in some facet. It was absolutely unforgettable. I believe at that very moment, we were watching him leave this old life behind and stepping into a new and glorious one … and had no desire to even look back.

As for my Mother, she was in the hospital and had been on a respirator for some days. It was a struggle for me to consent that she be removed. (There were a multitude of counsellors … and my sister … and they all gave me the space I needed to finalize this dreaded decision.) Mother’s three week stay was a struggle for me. Losing her has been a struggle for me. It is good to remember, though, the many good things that came from those final three weeks of her life. (I should pull a letter I wrote about some of the miraculous things that happened, and quote some of the passages for you, but I wish to zero in on that particular day.) There was quite a crowd gathered in her room. The respirator had not as yet been removed. Suddenly a buzzer sounded and a light came on … and it came from her bed. All eyes moved to the bed. Someone saw the light and read the words by the light that was on ... which said, “Patient Out of Bed.” There was absolutely no one standing by her bed that could have pressed the button that lighted that message. In fact, I do not think any of us ever paid any attention to the buttons and lights on her hospital bed. We could only stare at each other in wonder, and I have to believe that it was done in part to help me come to grips with the removal of the respirator. I believe it was a message … that my Mother had departed for that wonderful unseen kingdom of God. I believe there have been studies that when a person dies, and the spirit departs, there is a loss of body weight, and Mother’s bed could weigh her. So, when her spirit stepped out of that bed, the buzzer went off and the light by "Patient Out of Bed" came on. I have no other explanation about what happened that day other than it being a message from Yahweh … our God … that Mother had departed. We may think that we hold life and death in our hands at times, but in reality, it is the hand of Yahweh that holds life and death in His righteous hands. I believe He was lightening my burden.

So, in both cases, I believe my Father and my Mother were gone from their bodies before their bodies died. Although I still do not like to think about the death of the body, it is easier for me since I have seen both of my parents pass on. I believe God intervened in a real way to help allay my own fears and misgivings … and, perhaps to others who were there as well.

Yahweh does work in mysterious ways … and He has given us a Comforter Who is able to comfort in extraordinary ways. Someday I believe we will see all the many ways He directed our paths … and intervened so that we might run this race and cross the finish line … because He first loved us … and chose us to be His people.

Elle