is CI mysterious enough?

[learningaboutCI]

There are a number of points in the NT where the word "mystery" is used, in many translations. For example, in Ephesians we might find "the dispensation of the mystery which hath been hidden from eternity in God". In Romans and Corinthians there are similar usages. If all Israel is saved, and if the racial problem is reasonably clear throughout the Scriptures, where is the mystery? The matter is so clear, according to CI, that I might rate it more of a marvel than a mystery. Is salvation as a racial fact sufficiently mysterious, to qualify as a mystery?

[Joe]

I think the main part of the mystery is in the purpose God has for His people, His plan.

Our origin is why we have that purpose.

The understanding that He had His people, that He had a people, was never really all that mysterious ...even if, for a while, those people were unaware of their identity. So I think the main part of the mystery is His plan and it how was established from the beginning and how He is the author and finisher of our faith.

[Staropramen]

Imo there is nothing mysterious about the racial element of the scripture. Our people are blind to it because of the enormous amount of propaganda that has been leveled against us combined with our general turning away from our Creator.

[learningaboutCI]

Very good answers, thank you very much.

I think the question occurs to me because CI introduces, or perhaps recognizes, a confusion, more than a mystery. Of course creation itself is a mystery, and also as Joe says, our purpose. It is plenty mysterious. One can be satisfied with that as "mystery". But a racial salvation introduces a confusion: in regular Christianity, one is saved by virtue of cooperating with Jesus. (Some Protestants bypass any need for cooperation, even.) But if salvation is racial, then the question becomes more confusing, and less mysterious: who is in the race? One can't know.

In regular Christianity, I can make an educated guess as to whether or not I am cooperating with the grace of God. I may dispute whether grace is created or not, and other sorts of details, but day to day, if I'm angry, selfish, irritable, lewd, or taking-the-holy-words-in-vain, then I'm able to see that I'm heading away from salvation. Jesus did His work on the Cross but I can unite my will to it, or not. When salvation is a racial matter, then the question is, Am I the correct race? What if I'm 1/32 not? I can easily go my whole life without knowing. Maybe there was a rape that was hushed up. Maybe someone hid his identity from a sexual mate. Now, our Lord Jesus did say that His sheep know His voice. By that means, one might reason, "Am I drawn? Does this sound true to me?" But consider the somewhat browner people in southern Europe. How can they really be sure? They might say that it all sounds good, but after all, maybe there was a little accident at some point, lost in previous generations. So how can such a person unite to the faith? A DNA test could be helpful, but, I believe they are playing with the categories to make a certain amount of obscurantism normal. Also there haven't always been DNA tests.

So CI recognizes some mystery, it is true. But it also posits something which cannot be other than a confusion. I'm only saved if I'm in a certain class of person, and, how can I be sure?

OTOH, it is important to recognize that CI is working to determine the real meaning of the many racial details of the Scriptures. One can say, it is what it is. We find this. There it is, take it or leave it.

[Joe]

My only thoughts.
-He made us as we are and He preserves His people.
-Yes, we are drawn to Him, non-white 'Christians' are drawn to something else.
-We do not choose Him, He chooses us and that we can do nothing towards our own salvation.
-If we were a bastard we wouldn't be able to understand/be drawn to that which we will not have. You cannot draw a blind man with colour nor describe to him what it is like to see. Bastards will not miss anything, they haven't any eyes to see, and do not care to see (a blind man may actually miss his sight, as a lost sheep who misses God).

[Kentucky]

the question is, Am I the correct race? What if I'm 1/32 not? I can easily go my whole life without knowing.

If one is constantly preoccupied with the unknown, there is little time for the known. Unless you're one of those browner people of southern Europe, the hypotheticals will kill your soul.

Saved-by-race, yes. Saved by choosing Jesus regardless of race, no. The promise of grace is the promise of salvation, which pertains to Israelites (Romans 9:4).

Mark

[learningaboutCI]

That's a very good point, the known vs. the unknown, and the risk of concentrating on the latter and foregoing the former! However, it occurs to me that there is a risk of the following: The true religion of Yahweh is one which nobody can be sure of following.

Leaving aside the lightly tan people of southern Europe, I recall one observation Brian made during the critique of Eli James' "Crumbs" episode. James had said that his lineage includes Marie Antoinette, or includes something that includes Antoinette, something like that, and Brian said that this line was infected with Jew. The problem that raises in my mind is, that the royal houses were quite free with their seed. Offspring would not typically be aborted, I don't think, but sent out into the countryside somewhere, for various forms of adoption, and of course there would be baptism. Nobody would really have any sense of keeping such people out of future participation in the gene pool. The story could have been repeated many thousands of time across Europe, across the centuries. All perfectly White-looking. So how can anyone be sure that they are not just a little bit Jewish? The point is not that the unknown becomes a distraction, but rather that the basic claim of CI amounts to saying that the true religion of Yahweh is not one can follow with any certainty. You could spend your whole life devoting yourself to the Gospel, and then discover that you have a little accident in your background some centuries ago, and you are no longer Israelite. The least crack and the vessel won't hold water.

So in other words, while ordinary Christianity says there are mysteries, and here is how we can unite ourselves to them, CI puts forward a more confusing situation, in which nobody can know what their real status is.

And of course there is the problem of southern Europeans who are a bit tan, but who seem to respond to the Gospel in a way that doesn't seem especially greedy or self-serving.

Now: one possibility is that genetic science is a distraction, and that in reality the 'genes' can fight off a bad influence, sort of trap it like an infection, so that if one has that unfortunate background blip, as long as they hear the Shepherd's voice, they are okay. But, this is offensive to CI because of the strength of the view that purity is essential.

[Lang]

When salvation is a racial matter, then the question is, Am I the correct race? What if I'm 1/32 not?

That is certainly the most confusing part in Christian Identity. For example, I read that Shania Twain has some indian blood, and I would never even suspect if she had never said it. I have one grandfather who is one of those "a bit tan" southern europeans. He has european features and traits, but with that "little bit non-pale" skin. My grandmother, his wife, was a half italian half austrian racist woman, and the only one who knew his parents. Some would say, if she is racist certainly his parents were okay and he is okay too. But if she is so racist why she just dont married a nordic type? I sent some pictures to Joe and Bill, they said I'm okay but I cannot be sure.

One could say that I'm cool because I'm blonde, green eyes, etc, and when we mix with blacks our offspring is clearly black, that the son/daughter is born with nothing resembling his/her white parent. But then we have cases of a pure black dude marring a white woman and having blonde offspring. I have met some people who I'd say are the perfect aryan types but they were only 1/2 white. Hows that possible?

-If we were a bastard we wouldn't be able to understand/be drawn to that which we will not have. You cannot draw a blind man with colour nor describe to him what it is like to see. Bastards will not miss anything, they haven't any eyes to see, and do not care to see (a blind man may actually miss his sight, as a lost sheep who misses God).

So, now, thats interesting. Can we be sure that only israelites can have the ears to hear, and eyes to see the God's real message to us? Also, can we spot non-white blood judging by character traits?

The guy who unfortunately married my aunt is "italian", and has a more white complexed skin than my grandfather, but with some doubtful and strange features, like curly hair and an odd face. Judging by his face, maybe he could be really italian, and maybe he could be not a pure italian. But after 10 minutes talking to him, you are 100% sure that he is arab/turk, while the grandpa was a gentleman and very polite. But, are character traits an indicator of racial purity? What if a mongrel can understand the message, is it really impossible?

Thats my honest questions, always searching for the truth, which are similar to the "learningaboutCI" questions.

the hypotheticals will kill your soul.

Indeed. The uncertainty, even the smallest one, sometimes comes to haunt us with the thought that maybe all our work, all our study and all our effort spent to survive in Mystery Babylon can possibly be in vain.

[Kentucky]

The point is not that the unknown becomes a distraction, but rather that the basic claim of CI amounts to saying that the true religion of Yahweh is not one can follow with any certainty.

Perhaps you have something in your woodpile that is causing you so much doubt and consternation. Faith is believing in the absolute Word of God. The entire Bible is about the White race. What part of that don't you understand? Your ramblings are beginning to sound like the sophistry of an atheist. Maybe you should read your Bible more than whatever is filling your head with "what ifs."

"so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught" Luke 1:4


Mark