eternal punishment, and Israelites

[learningaboutCI]

One of the themes or beliefs of CI is that Hell is a (deliberate) misinterpretation of the Revelation. The correct Revelation is that redemption is racial. There are no bad sheep, and no good goats. Churchianity, in its more serious variants (i.e. not so much the health-and-wealth gospel places), is very keen on Hell. Matthew 25 is often cited, as it includes the following:

Depart from Me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was hungry, and ye gave Me nothing to eat:

At first blush that sounds very much like condemnation on a behavioral basis. One made the wrong choices in life, and so pops off to Hell to enjoy the worm that never dieth. Catholics have reams of analysis of this, explaining that in terms of the state of soul, such an outcome reflects God's perfect judgment, etc etc. Lots of words, very ratiocinative. Not much Scripture in many cases.

Bill rescues the passage. He explains that the goat societies are unable to support life in any meaningful way. http://christogenea.org/podcasts/matthew-chapter-25 Bill's analysis is much sounder, much more likely and satisfying. Churchianity would have us giving charitable donations to the very creatures that are obviously akin to locusts, and whose presence is more consistent with a chastisement than a natural growth of our societies. "Watering the weeds", I've heard it quipped.

But one question. Bill states the following:

For those of us who do not awaken to these things, for those who do not hear the call, they shall suffer with the others. For those wicked servants who question the motives of Yahweh our God: they too will receive their reward in the Lake of Fire!

Now there's a reason for fear and trembling. Virtually no Israelite awakens. [Edit to add: or at least, in recent decades, many have been lulled to sleep and now have no implicit racial outlook.] As for me, I can certainly see that the racial indications are strong in the Scripture. But a part of me says, Whoa, I've long believed in Hell, and that the highway to heaven is littered with the skulls of heretics who stopped believing in Hell. Also, in other places Bill shows how the Scriptures indicate that all Israel is saved. Indeed there are no good goats and no bad sheep, he says. But then some Israelites go into the lake of fire. I sense a potential inconsistency. I thought the idea in CI was that the suffering of the sheep is in this life, when they stray and end up in the clutches of the enemy.

Can you clarify this for me at all?

[Filidh]

hell isn't equivalent to the lake of fire, as hell is the underworld that is thrown into the lake of fire, and hell isn't able to be the same thing that it's being thrown into, logically.

i'll let someone else answer the rest of your question.

[Staropramen]

I too had a suspicion that Adamites who refuse to repent go into the Lake of Fire but only for a season. The word fire in that Revelation passage is used elsewhere in the context of "refining fire" and "for ever" according to Strong's can mean a finite period of time [age] or infinity [ages and ages]. However I mentioned this in the chat one evening during a podcast and MattewOtt made a good point to the contrary, I just don't remember what it was.

[Joe]

http://emahiser.christogenea.org/resurrection-life-how-when-whom

Cor. 3:11-15: “ 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Yahshua Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. 14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.”

There are two categories of works here to be judged, those which will stand the test of fire, and
those which will not. Thus, all false doctrines will be burned up, never to be promoted again, and
those advancing them will find themselves empty-handed before Yahshua, totally without reward. But
like it says, they will be saved, yey they will not be given any authority in the kingdom since they have proved themselves untrustworthy. Sorry to say, there is a lot of wood, hay and stubble floating around
Israel Identity today!

I don't think they go into the lake of fire, just that they have no reward because when their works were manifest they were not good and were burned-up. The Israelites who stored treasure in heaven will manifest that treasure and have their reward. The others will have shame, could you imagine being before God carrying a great shame, I think they would almost rather not exist. They will be very repentant.

There are other better examples but I am catching up with Clifton's work atm and am learning about CI myself. I have no understandings that are my own at this stage.

[Staropramen]

Bill states the following:

For those of us who do not awaken to these things, for those who do not hear the call, they shall suffer with the others. For those wicked servants who question the motives of Yahweh our God: they too will receive their reward in the Lake of Fire!

I don't think that the wicked servants who question the motives of Yahweh are Israel. Bill wrote earlier in the paper;

Note that these “servants”, as the King James Version has the word, are slaves, and not children. [Note John 8:35.] It is clear from other statements of Christ, that not all of those who claim to be serving Him are recognized by Him. The Greek word used here is δουλός, which is a bondman or involuntary servant, a slave, and not a διάκονος, a minister or servant who is not a slave, although both words appear as “servant” frequently in the New Testament. This particular slave went so far as to question even the motives of his master. That sounds like most of the so-called servants of God today, who question the very Gospel, and twist it into a mass of confusion! To he not having, even that which he has shall be taken from him, because he probably never deserved it in the first place. Yahweh has warned us, in the curses of disobedience, that strangers would rule over us for our disobedience, and we see that in the pulpits and the halls of academia as well as in the political and civil realms.

They are strangers that rule over us. I can't imagine any Adamite questioning Yahweh's motives when face-to-face with Him. On the other hand I'm sure there will be church niggers poppin' off at the mouth before they get BBQ'd.

[Filidh]

staro, there are plenty of israelites today who question god's motives. look at the luciferians, satanists, odinists, atheists, hitler-deifying nationalsocialists (as opposed to christian nationalsocialists who view hitler as a good but fallible man, talking about the camp of savitri devi, miguel serrano, and so on), trinitarians who split god into three, all other manner of churchworshippers, darwinists, nietzschians, the list goes on.

this is why it's written that we're going to be purified as silver in the furnace, that a remnant remains at the end of days.

in the past i believed otherwise, that we would be able to win over every single aryan and form them all into a single nationalchristiansocialist-state, but this isn't god's plan, becuz it's written that only a remnant will be preserved, and that in the last days we'll go on marrying and carrying on in marriage, and not knowing when christfather returns, as he comes as a thief in the night, as in the days of noah and lot.

and it's also written, that in the early rain we were fishers of men, casting a wide-net, but in the later rain, which is now, we are hunters of men, gathering the remnant together into an anointed force.

it's wise to lower our ambition, and strengthen our resolve.

i know you're referring to when they see him face-to-face, but if the enemyleader himself saw god face to face and chose to rebel against him, that means that the angels had free will, as we do (yes, we have free will, not just the illusion of it, i'll discuss this more in another post), and that therefore each of us has the potential to do good or evil, water or fire, life or death. each of us has the potential to become one with father, and to be an eternal instrument of the everliving creator, or to go the way of the evil one, and face the consequences thereof, such as eternal separation from him.

yes, we're all preserved. but precisely how we're preserved is determined by our behavior, whether we do the job that god gives us, and he does indeed give each of us a job in life even tho some ignore, willfully or ignorantly, the job he has given them, or whether we reject him and by extension the job he has given us and choose to serve ourselves, for serving ourselves alone is a way in which we serve the enemy, as it is written that self-forgetting is how one finds and that he who seeks his own life will lose it but he who loses his life for christ's sake will find it.

i believe we are able to win them over, but the very fact that we need to win them over testates to their existance as questioners of christ our god and his motives.

it must be recognized that race isn't the only thing that matters. behavior also matters, and the two, race and behavior, complement eachother, becuz without good behavior, but with race alone as the factor, you have decay and eventual death.

this is why christ chose abraham, even tho the other hebrews were still racially-pure.

the behavior-resulting idea, or the concept of the idea, the idea being a spirit itself, is why god chose abraham, even tho abraham was no more racially-pure than the other hebrews.

becuz abraham, in addition to being racially-pure, which is the prerequesite withoutwhich nothing else is able to serve christ, believed in christ. he trusted in christ, he had faith in christ, on an absolute level. he was willing to sacrifice his only son to christ, such was his love and trust in christ.

race alone does not the sky-kingdom make. we must be good as well, and serve christ absolutely. this is why there is an outerdarkness inwhich men will be cast.

[Kentucky]

it must be recognized that race isn't the only thing that matters.

Right, but it's way ahead of whatever is in second place.

behavior also matters, and the two, race and behavior, complement eachother, becuz without good behavior, but with race alone as the factor, you have decay and eventual death.

"Saved by race" used to be a bothersome cliche for me (in the sense that it was used by our adversaries to quell the racial message of Identity), but I realized it's both race and grace. Grace is the element that really makes us humble, a much needed behavior that is the impetus of II Chron. 7:14... a standard admonition of Christian Identity that is easier said than done.

Mark

[Staropramen]

i know you're referring to when they see him face-to-face, but if the enemyleader himself saw god face to face and chose to rebel against him, that means that the angels had free will, as we do (yes, we have free will, not just the illusion of it, i'll discuss this more in another post), and that therefore each of us has the potential to do good or evil, water or fire, life or death. each of us has the potential to become one with father, and to be an eternal instrument of the everliving creator, or to go the way of the evil one, and face the consequences thereof, such as eternal separation from him.

I think that the difference between Yahweh's children and Lucifer is that Lucifer saw God face to face without the experiences and understanding that every child of Yahweh will have had when they come face to face with Him. It's because of this understanding and experiences that I doubt any Adamite will question Him.

[Staropramen]

What I don't understand is this;

Note that these “servants”, as the King James Version has the word, are slaves, and not children. [Note John 8:35.] It is clear from other statements of Christ, that not all of those who claim to be serving Him are recognized by Him.

If all the "servants" in the quoted passage are "not children" [i.e: not us] then these quotes must not refer to Yahweh, correct?;

21 His master said to him: ‘Well done, good and faithful slave! With a little you were faithful. I shall appoint you over much! Enter into the joy of your master!’

23 His master said to him: ‘Well done, good and faithful slave! With a little you were faithful. I shall appoint you over much! Enter into the joy of your master!’

Why would Christ use an example of a godless slave master rewarding his faithful beast slaves to illustrate anything about the Kingdom? Or, if the master here refers to Yahweh then how can the "faithful" slaves be beasts appointed over much?

[Joe]

Filidh said

staro, there are plenty of israelites today who question god's motives. look at the luciferians, satanists, odinists, atheists, hitler-deifying nationalsocialists (as opposed to christian nationalsocialists who view hitler as a good but fallible man, talking about the camp of savitri devi, miguel serrano, and so on), trinitarians who split god into three, all other manner of churchworshippers, darwinists, nietzschians, the list goes on.

Matthew 12:31
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.

it must be recognized that race isn't the only thing that matters. behavior also matters, and the two, race and behavior, complement eachother, becuz without good behavior, but with race alone as the factor, you have decay and eventual death.

James 1:22
22 Now you must be doers of the Word and not hearers only, defrauding yourselves. 23 Because if one is a hearer of the Word and not a doer, he is like a man observing the appearance of his race in a mirror, 24 for he observes himself and departs and immediately forgets of what sort he was.

this is why christ chose abraham, even tho the other hebrews were still racially-pure.

I believe Abraham was God-fearing.

Staropramen said

Why would Christ use an example of a godless slave master rewarding his faithful beast slaves to illustrate anything about the Kingdom? Or, if the master here refers to Yahweh then how can the "faithful" slaves be beasts appointed over much?

Perhaps, as Esau, the wicked slaves were of our race but were not God-fearing. Their reward will be as a drop in a bucket compared to the chosen-line, yes, they are Adamic and will be saved, but their works will probably burn (along with their bastard offspring).